Hello All,
I am new to playing Arcane mage spec and I was wondering if it worth my time playing that spec or should I stick with Frost. It has been a long time since I played a Mage and wanted to pick a spec that will do well in both Mythics and Raids. I know Frost is good for leveling but I saw on Noxxic that Arcane is the best but it burns through mana like crazy and not sure if I am doing something wrong or not. Any help would be great
1 Like
The fact that you mentioned noxxic makes me like… 90% sure this is a troll post but if it isn’t go ahead and pretend arcane doesn’t exist, frost is passable but if you want to be compete in any form of content at end game you’re playing fire and only fire.
Frost actually arguably scales better than Fire does on single target with Mastery & holds some niches over both Fire and Arcane on fights where you need Frost’s ability to double soak mechanics with back to back Ice Blocks (like mythic Vex/Nzoth) or fights where random mechanics force you out of RoP (because Frost on noIL runs Incanter’s Flow). However replicating this strength in actual fights requires adequate distance from the boss to ensure Spike > Flurry works properly, so you’re not wrong in your statement.
Frost’s only issue is that for AoE its Mastery isn’t that great since it can only cleave onto 2 targets (again, extremely strong on 2 target cleave), and after that its Mastery loses value although it isn’t entirely useless. So it then becomes really weak unless there are a crap ton of mobs to repeatedly Blizzard and fire off Frozen Orbs. Even then Fire is arguably better and in the current meta nothing lives that long on big AoE pulls unless your group is pulling low numbers or trying a very obscure strategy. The only other option is the Orb build which is great at AoE.
For Arcane vs Frost: I’d say for early progression on Nyo, even on mythic, Arcane is better since most of the fights are purely or largely single target based. If your group is struggling to meet the DPS checks & you’re good with Arcane, then it will probably outshine Frost on targets that matter, although final numbers may be lower due to Frost’s ability to cleave better on the phases where it’s viable to do so. For instance on Mythic Wrathion, Arcane will do better damage on the boss itself but Frost will probably handle the spikes phase better.
For keys, I don’t see how Arcane’s inability to handle both AoE and single target reasonably well will put it ahead of Frost. That’s the issue with the spec: it only excels at one thing at a time. But I reckon on weeks where affixes put emphasis on bursting down bosses faster, Arcane could be possible. Then again most of the dungeon is fighting trash packs, so I honestly don’t know. Never tried mythic keys as Arcane myself and I never see other Arcane mages signing up for keys in pugs. It’s almost always just Frost/Fire.
Just a heads up on logs: they can be misleading since most of the top performances you see are with groups that are extremely well coordinated and have fights down to a script and pre-planning always favors Fire tremendously. Also never forget that the more people play 1 spec the more the odds of that spec looking ridiculously better than the others even though in actual ideal setups the other specs might not be that far off. It’s how all DPS classes function.
4 Likes
First off, don’t go with noxxic. That website is pure garbage.
Arcane is fine in mythics and raids, though if you get into mythic raids your team will most likely want you to go fire.
You can play whatever spec you want, the only spec I would stay away from would be fire until you have the proper gear (3X blaster master traits, rank 3 lucid, and mechagon bracers). I’ve raided as every spec and held my own. Play what you enjoy
4 Likes
No this is not a troll post I am truly interested in which spec is good now a days for a mage in terms of Mythic and raids. So don’t judge a post just because I said Noxxic, you can’t judge a book by it cover.
Completely false, fire clearly is the best spec but frost is extremely competitive in all forms of content. Especially now with all the mastery we can stack a pretty good NOiL player will beat an okay fire mage in essentially all content.
1 Like
And what about PVP (only random bgs and Wpvp)
I feel like a free kill but I am not playing a lot this toon.
Now I am trying to not use GS cause in Wpvp and even in arena u are interrupted all the time to be able to cast it.
But as I said I left a bit behind this toon.
Arcane you will keep up with fire for the first 10 seconds of the encounter in PVE in the event you don’t have to move. Then expect your DPS to flat line until your burn phase is up again.
Fire will out DPS you pretty much the entire fight.
Frost the same if they can play their spec.
The only time this changes is if there is massive gear difference.
Arcane is great in PVP but so are the other 2 specs.
Speccing arcane in M+ about say 10 and heroic/mythic Nyloth is too hard because of the game mechanics and the need for you to be constantly moving to avoid death. Movement for arcane = Flatline DPS. Especially during the burn phase.
Movement for arcane mage is a killer on your DPS. Plus the 10 seconds of AP will let you be competitive on the DPS meters with fire for exactly 10 seconds.
The only time this wouldn’t hold true is if the Arcane mage was heavily out gearing the other 2 specs of the people playing those spec were complete mongs.
Arcane in PVE endgame content is broken IMO it lacks cleave ability (Unless you are specked into it and even then it pales in comparison) and sustained ability to move and do consistent damage. As most fight enounters last a while expect to run OOM often even with popper burn conserve phases. Planning evocation is a pain in high end stuff also because you have a choice in the event something pops underneath you. You either tank the DMG and hope your healer can heal you through it so you can DPS. Or you move and kiss your mana goodbye.
ATM the Arcane spec performs awesome in PVP which I think may be the main reason the dev’s are reluctant to change it. But in PVE after a certain level you will be outclassed by the other 2 specs.
This is all under the assumptions of same gear and skill level.
For progression I would say stick with fire or frost to get your gear then look at switching to Arcane when you have the gear you want for PVP. That way your out geared for the instances/Raids you will be running anyway. Like the majority of Mages have done atm.
I’m wondering if you saw this and thought “best”
https://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/
Everyone at noxxic should be rounded up and beaten with their own website for publishing that garbage!
They took Eternal Palace and Benthic gear that maxes out at 425-445 and scaled it up to 475
and used that for all 3 specs
and its not even the gear that’s listed on noxxic’s own BiS Gear page for the spec.
Completely ridiculous and just all around terrible. Not your fault Silverfoxs. That’s all on noxxic.
Personally I would recommend trying out all 3 specs. Get a feel for how they work and all that while leveling up and before you feel the need to min/max. The basic premise of how they work won’t change much in Shadowlands but there isn’t any guarantee that Arcane won’t be the truly be the “best spec” in the next xpac. None of us can predict how things will shake out.
Arcane can be pretty good solo questing while running around in the world leveling up. A 4-charge arcane blast hits pretty hard and you can stay at 4-arcane charges almost indefinitely, just eat after every encounter to get your mana back. End-game belongs mostly to Fire with Frost filling some niches too.
2 Likes
your first mistake. Noxxic is literal garbage.
Are you basing this on your own experience or actual data?
Arcane has its problems, but it can objectively keep up/do more dps on a lot of fights, especially now that padding damage is removed from logs on a few bosses.
Taking a quick look at your logs, you’re making a lot of fundamental mistakes (rotationally and in terms of essence/azerite choices).
2 Likes
Ok so you pointed out his terrible logs great cheers here’s a pat on the back now I’m really curious what you think he said that wasn’t accurate?
Fire dps is just as bad or worse outside of cooldowns, and they’re also locked to rune of power.
This depends on the fight.
What does too hard mean? What kind of movement are we talking? Arcane can get through a lot of fights without moving their feet or interrupting their casts once. Use shimmer and displace to their fullest. Also arcane is probably legitimately the best mage spec for +10 dungeons because things die so quickly that arcane’s instant cast aoe and minimal ramp are actually an advantage compared to fire needing to spread ignite.
Yes, this is a fair criticism, especially given the current raid encounter design
This, however, is not. The spec is designed around cycling through mana and burning and conserving as appropriate. If you go oom at the wrong time, it is because you made a mistake. Evocation can be protected by shimmering if you have shimmer, or moving if you have slipstream. If you start channeling evo with no available shimmer charges in a position where a deadly ability or knockback can hit you, then you made a mistake and can fix it for next time.
5 Likes
Agreed on OOM part. I feel like your just trying to make a case for arcane, problem is it plays similar to fire but fire does everything better if I’m running a dungeon and I have to pull around a mage why would I ever want to pull around an arcane mage? Or I could not play like that and take a frost that will do the same damage as arcane throughout an entire dungeon not in phases. Regardless I’m completely against telling someone to play X because it’s the best. playing any spec at a high level will always beat someone playing FOTM mid level. Then again if someone’s asking what spec to play they probably are super low tier
What this guy said. All 3 specs are fine in a majority of the content you’ll find in the game.
You don’t start seeing issues with Frost and Arcane compared to fire until you get into Mythic Progression and going beyond 15+ keys, where min-maxing actually matters.
If you like Frost or Arcane, play them. Most people aren’t even doing content where min-maxing is crucial to success.
3 Likes
Why does it not surprise me the frost mage who hasn’t even killed carapace is the one saying fire isn’t the best spec hehe xD
but they literally did say fire is the best? 
1 Like
He said if you want to be competent you have to play fire which is completely false, I wouldn’t expect a guy who can’t complete a double digit key to be able to read anyway.
Clearly stated it was the best spec but I pointed out at this stage a good frost mage can definitely be competent and beat out ok fire mages. Yeah I run with a 2 day a week guild who is 4 weeks retuned to progging so strong insult douche.
1 Like
Also just a note on mythic+ keys, Arcane has a serious crutch in that it can’t spam Spellsteal to help the group out with dispels, as the spell is extremely mana intensive. Frost/Fire don’t have this handicap since their normal rotation ignores their mana pool and even if you’re oom to the point where you can’t Spellsteal you can still use your other spells without any issues whatsoever.
I do like the spec from a PvE standpoint since it juggles two resources while Frost and Fire are mostly just proc based (more so in Frost’s case). But it just has a difficult time finding its way into a comfortable dps scenario outside visions (where it shines).