Arcane Mage Feedback

What went wrong in 12.0:

Arcane missiles was tuned egregiously badly, cc generation was too low, Arcane Orb cdr was insufficient, and yet the whole rotation lived and died by Arcane Salvo. As a result you were stuck spamming Arcane Blast (or worse Arcane Pulse) in order to build salvo which is what powered the whole rotation, except spamming AB/Pulse is throttled by mana, so with bad rng you rotation just fell flat on its face because you couldn’t cast your builder spell, let alone your spender. Plus you know, lack of defensives, lack of mobility, lack of anything that a class requires in wow retail to be remotely competitive…

What I think works in the proposed changes:

Obviously missiles being back at the forefront of the spec is very welcome - assuming it is tuned well. It is incredibly important for the health of the spec that this happens through the base design, rather than a tier set bonus. High Voltage is one of the best additions the spec has received in years.

The new Apex talent basically doubles down on insurance for avoiding the crappy moments when you’re low on charges. Also it looks really cool and hits really hard. Between that, High Voltage, and the odd Arcane Orb, the “fall flat on my face if I have low arcane charges” issue with the spec is basically gone, and that feels fantastic.

For spellslinger Arcane Salvo actually works as a mechanic, courtesy (mostly) of Polished focus. Because you only need to build 15 stacks, and that takes a single AM cast+whatever filler at most, your rotation actually flows nicely. You hit max stacks a lot, therefore barrage a lot, therefore proc the apex talent a lot, therefore generate lots of CC, therefore you keep going quite easily.

What I think doesn’t work in the proposed changes:

For Sunfury, Arcane Salvo is a lot worse and these changes do not fully fix it - as in, it’s very similar to 12.0. You barrage less both because you generate fewer stacks (since you don’t have splinters contributing) and because you need to build more stacks before each Barrage cast, so you need 2AM casts per cycle vs Slinger’s one AM cast. If rng isn’t with you, you’re back to spamming AB, and you go out of mana, and you can’t cast spells, and you’re back to the current patch which we all agree is miserable. Possible fixes here include turning the CC generation of Sunfury up by a LOT (e.g. by greatly increasing the proc rate in Pyrocosm), and/or going back to a cap of 20 Salvo stacks for both hero specs.

Intuition still feels out of place. For Spellslinger it doesn’t really matter since you cycle salvo/charges so quickly, but for Sunfury it adds to the constraints above and is generally just an unsatisfying talent. If we wanted something to mix up gameplay, a better solution would be to turn it into a proc that says “your next barrage counts as having 4 charges and max salvo stacks, and does not consume either” or something. Just “hey freebie barrage” before moving on.

The tier set encourages counter-intuitive behavior. It is very common to cast missiles to build the last few stacks of Arcane Salvo you need to Barrage, but then you’re in a situation where you have the tier set proc (therefore, you want to cast Blast/Apex) but you also are at max Salvo/Charges and want to clear that with Barrage. Here your options are either a) barrage>blast, meaning you effectively wasted a tier set proc, or b) blast>barrage, which means you overcap salvo. The latter feels kind of bad, the former feels awful. An easy fix here is to just make the tier set buff Arcane Barrage as well, just like Nether Precision used to.

What else is missing:

This spec has a LOT of dead talents in this state, and these changes kind of double down on that - particularly in the capstone tier. Mana Bomb, Presence of Mind, Charged Orb, Evocation, Orb Barrage, Orb Mastery, Overflowing Insight and Charged Missiles are all unplayable, partly because of tuning, but mostly because their design fundamentally does not work with the spec.

Touch of the Magi and the miniburn are once again incredibly weak and near negligible with these changes.

Spellslinger still provides near zero defensive benefits, particularly because the Mirror Image talents do absolutely nothing.

Speaking of Pyrocosm, I am told it is still bugged and has a 0% proc rate. Which explains SF’s abysmall CC generation leading to its rotational woes. Might want to double check that.

6 Likes

I can’t overstate how much I agree with what was mentioned about Intuition. I think this talent plus Polished Focus did unprecedented damage to the spec up until now. I know mana management has always been a thing for Arcane, but 12.0 took it to the extreme.

Between the lowered proc chance of Clearcasting, Mana Adept competing with Evocation, the super egregious mana cost of Arcane Pulse, no Barrage refunders and being forced to cast Barrage at only max Salvo stacks, I don’t think I’ve ever felt so much friction simply trying to do my basic rotation.

I hate Salvo. Why do we need to juggle so many resources at the same time? Mana and Arcane Charges were enough already (didn’t you guys want to simplify the game?). Salvo (Arcane Harmony) felt the best when it could be ignored entirely in TWW and I don’t think anyone ever enjoyed playing around it, but at least it used to turn Barrage into a heavy nuke with proper setup in the past. Now it’s just there to get in the way of basically everything.

I won’t even get into some utterly useless talents like Charges Missiles, Mana Bomb and now after the changes, Reverberate and likely the Arcane Orb capstones.

2 Likes

I already posted my thoughts elsewhere, but one thing I noticed that really should be pointed out is the choice talent between high voltage and charged missiles. Charged missiles buffs 4/8 waves by 40%, for a 20% damage buff on the channel. High voltage buffs the channel by 20%.

Our choice node reads, deal 20% more missile damage always and have it generate charges, or deal 20% more missile damage sometimes and have it consume charges. I think this warrants a second look on charged missiles, clearly this isn’t much of a choice.

2 Likes

Agree with what is said above, but I have a few more points to make as well

1. Arcane Pulse
I don’t quite understand the new ability. On paper it’s a way to regain charges, and shoudl be a big damage event in AOE, but it’s doing the same job as Arcane Orb.

Both are intended to be lowish-cd presses to gain charges, but I don’t see a compelling case for both to exist. For SS you’ll always take orb, and for Sunfury it will just be whatever is tuned better.

Reverberate is also a dead node too. Unless arcane pulse is tuned wildly high, it’s just another layer of RNG for minimal damage.

I didn’t mind pulse in it’s current itteration, but this feels like a step back. I feel it’s supposed to be the “Arcane’s version of meteor” button, but it doesn’t fit in the current kit.

2. Intuition
Having to cap salvo, especially on sunfuy feels bad. You can go dry on missile casts or have to cast back to back missiles and much the tier set.

I get that salvo is akin to Arcane Harmony, a great legendary from Shadowlands, but the best itterations of any stacking barrage buff have always been when they’ve been guaranteed (for shadowlands you just pressed missiles all the time) or when you treated it as a nice passive to have but didn’t need to cap (Dragonflight and TWW). Making it so if feels bad to press outside of max salvo does not feel good

Old intuition from TWW would be much better. You still have salvo hooks for each Hero Talent tree for better chances for orbs or meteors, but it’s not as punishing or bad feeling as it is now.

3. Spending Clearcasts
I’m glad our tier prioritizes spending clear casts as soon as they come up. Without this we have no reason to be excited to get our class proc. I worry that when we get rid of this tier set, we’ll go back to no longer pressing AM, or munching CC procs waiting for orbs.

Nether precision had it’s problems, but it did give us a reason to alternate casts. I would be okay a Nether Precision like talent coming back without the hero talent hooks, and maybe only buffing Blast/Pulse/Pris Bolt to avoid too many barrage modifiers.

4. Missles vs Orb (and Hero Tree
I like Arcane Missles; it’s a core spec ability, but i feel like we’re just swapping the problem we had this season. In season 1, we completely ignored missiles making Sunfury useless, and it looks to be in season 2 without any reason to use orb that Spellslinger will also be bad.

I’d like a compelling reason again to use both. I love orb mastery as a concept, but having both abilities competing for our Clearcasting will always have it be a strict choice on ignoring one or the other (and the hero tree as a result). I love orb mastery as a concept, but I can’t find a way to make it work without completely devaluing missiles as long as it’s based on clearcasting.

My solution would be to make Orb Mastery always shoot 3 orbs and not be based on clearcasting It’s a capstone talent, it should be powerful, and then if missiles are properly tuned we could have both abilities be used.

1 Like

so many arcane mages have given up on feedback after time and time again being left unheard and straight up ignored. I cant understand how we keep getting changes literally no one asked for or wanted. please just stop egoing or whatever weird stance your taking and just revert the spec to pre midnight version

1 Like

Update for PTR 06/30

Mage Defensives
Overall I like the 2x charge of barrier for each spec. Fire’s is by far the weakest, but I do think all having separate CDs is healthy

Arcane Changes

  1. Amplification Node

Making this a new talent node feels bad. This is essentially forcing a 1 point tax on an already competitive mid section of the tree. I don’t see why amplification just isn’t baseline and learned at X level like so many other spell improvements are. Adding the tax here feels bad and makes us lose and effective point. We already had Intuition added as a node at the end of beta. Arcane has now had 2 additional mid section nodes added without more points to spend.

  1. Orb Mastery

Overall I like change. My bigget complaint was competing for clearcasting between the two talents.

  1. Apex Talent Changes

Having it proc randomly based on salvo stacks feels bad, especially if you don’t get it in your cooldown windows. With Touch of the Magi being so weak now without the old apex propping it up, I would suggest having Touch of the Magi guaranteeing a proc of Prismatic Bolt. Otherwise the variance is simply too high.

On a side note as well, without the Apex helping ToTM, it does need help. Increasing it’s % would make it an exciting cooldown again and make a mini-burn relevant.

  1. Hero Talent Disparity

Sunfury still lacks significantly behind in salvo generation compared to spellslinger and far worse in AOE. Having meteors generate salvo, and greatly increasing the damage of the meteors would be helpful.

Furthermore, Arcane Soul feels much worse than it did in Dragonflight just from a fun perspective. It’s supposed to be a big moment, but with it’s current duration it falls flat.

Conclusion

Overall I’m happy with the defensive changes and happy about decoupling clearcasting from orb mastery, but the talent point tax and overall variance of the new Apex Talent is still worrisome.

We need a more deterministic way of generating Prismatic Bolt, especially during cooldowns. We’ve had this same problem with Clearcasting for a long time until you gave us guaranteed CC on Arcane Surge and Touch of the Magi, so Prismatic Bolt should be getting the same treatment or else there are going to be instances where we get no procs during our cooldowns and it’ll feel extremely bad. This amount of variance is not desired.