Why did the devs bring one of the easiest specs in the game to the hardest? Why oh why oh WHY are they keeping the Kyrian harmony playstyle? The level of precision and timing that this playstyle requires is not suited for people like me, who loved Arcane for its simplicity. But nothing will ever compete with it. It will always be the required talents unless it is removed. PLEASE remove Kyrian harmony. Or severely gut it. It was fine for an expansion, but making this the new default playstyle of Arcane is AWFUL
8 Likes
You should rather ask for other builds to be viable and competitive. Other players find Kyrian-Harmony fun.
8 Likes
It is pretty simple, your burst is entirely scripted and you have a 2 button rotation out of burst. I agree the ramp up time is a bit much, but with how much mobility arcane has in DF it is not a hindrance at all, even in higher beta m+.
2 Likes
I guess…
I just miss how arcane used to be. Arcane power uber burst arcane blast spam, evocate, conserve, repeat. It was so simple and satisfying. I dont know why they changed it up so much. Arcane these days barely resembles how it used to be, and it wa smy faborite spec in the game
Oh well
12 Likes
I mostly agree with this mentality, though I am concerned that they’ll use the talents as a long-term progression system and at some point frost players will be forced into IV/TV/IP cancer and eventually people will be forced into this even if something “off-meta” works through DF.
I may level this toon, but in DF my plans are to use my mage as an alt, sad, given how much time I spent in legion on class stuff, but I can’t keep playing something I don’t enjoy and the dev design seems to be focused around stressful pew pew in general. I really feel like the devs don’t care about frost at all. I feel like it got nothing new compared to the things I’m seeing in other class trees. And WE still isn’t properly balanced and will only be useful in certain scenarios in M+ and PVP, though I doubt it will be competitive in M+ overall. I’m also confused why so many talents synergize with rooted state in frozen when so many things are outright immune to frost nova and similar roots. If it doesn’t work on a boss, I’d call it useless. Meanwhile, demo locks get to summon overlords to make their hordes of demons even stronger! And balance druids get faerie dragons!
2 Likes
arcane is easier than ever to paly right now. No idea what you are talking about. We dont even have to manage mana anymore thans to surge and level 70 talents.
The only thing slightly more complicated is perfecting burst windows but is that really the end of the world? I welcome that. Arcane right now is fantastic and i hope people like you dont make it the worst spec again
Once you hit 70 arcane with the extra talents is dam deadly.
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I think saying “end of the world” is hyperbole, but there’s also nothing with having simpler options and certainly some classes aren’t as negatively impacted as others in that regards. Arcane was already so heavily burst-focused, and sure some people like that playstyle but there was nothing wrong with the simpler AP window burn and conserve gameplay. Those who didn’t care for the “kyrian” playstyle of SL are left with limited options in DF.
I doubt the issue is with output tuning. I can’t speak for OP, but it appears that despite having access to a far greater number of talents there really aren’t any viable alternatives that give players choice without severely harming their damage.
This is my concern as well. As noted, the huge tree provides so few actual options because talents and builds are so poorly balanced. Blizzard talked a big game about changes and giving players real choices, but from what I have seen/heard it still boils down to a cookie-cutter spec and playstyle. The alternatives don’t provide enough real choice, and players are being pushed further into playstyles that were disliked in SL. That’s not to say these shouldn’t still be available to those who like it, but at the end of the day it boils down to “do I enjoy playing my class” and if the answer is no because of the limited options, then that’s a huge red flag.
3 Likes
If you want simple burst and a simple rotation frost is a good option. I cant beleive arcane is now considered difficult… are you using dh as a baseline? Like just watch one youtube video on how to play it and you will be fine on arcane… why is everybody acting like they have to play there classes perfectly its not like everybody here is a mythic raider
Arcane was boring and weak for so long. We know have a interesting burst window and burst options and you want to remove it
Like i dont play it perfectly but i do alright dps wise in groups and in pvp. Its nice having something you can always improve on rather than having nothing to improve on
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I also hate Kyrian Harmony:
- Having to stack so many cds
- Having to monitor harmony stacks
- Spamming AC without CC procs
- Rune of Power
I like Radiant Spark (alone), the thing is that talent is not enough if not paired with harmony (from my understanding). Also, RS > ToM > ABx4 is fine to me, but having to cast Arcane Surge before ToM expires (10 seconds)…? 
Before I thought I should use Arcane Surge first to get the buff and then RS + ToM. But apparently is not the correct way to do it.
PvP and M+ exists, you don’t take subzero in raids but in other type of content it is good. If you only raid it is useless for sure, but it is in reality far from that.
Aside from that, yeah I agree, our talents are not balanced and our capstones do not offer variety for game play.
1 Like
That’s just factually incorrect. Arcane in BfA was so idiotically simple it spawned memes where the player’s entire spell bar was Arcane Blast.
“Slightly” are you for real!?? You’re now required to perfectly execute a long string of spells and stack cooldowns in a precise sequence, timing everything down to the last millisecond with your empowered Arcane Barrage hitting the target at the very last moment just before TotM goes off. The burst window rotation feels incredibly cumbersome and is clunky af.
While I loathe the Kyrian Harmony play style I have no problem with other players liking it but don’t tell me it’s easy, lol. It’s just not true, period. Meanwhile all those of us who don’t like it want is for another viable build. You can keep your jank Kyrian Harmony build but don’t force the rest of us to also play it.
5 Likes
I dont remember a single person playing Arcane in BFA, after the legion pruning nobody touched arcane.
I understand what you are saying, but why does it matter if you dont do your burst window perfectly every single time. Why is it such a big deal? Its something you can work on and get better at, you dont need it for what you are competiting at so whats the big deal if you cant do it perfectly every time.
Just so you know…
I dont like harmony either but i am worried all these people calling for simplification and pruning will give us ANOTHER BFA. Blizzard never Slightly simplifies specs, its all or nothing with them.
I prefer things that take a higher skill cap mostly because there is always something to learn, i dont mind if i dont do it 100% perfectly all the time and i dont understand why people want to make everything so simple they do rotation perfectly every single time. The rotation the class skill cap to me is part of the game play its part of what makes things fun. I cant stand DH or Devoker for this reason.
2 Likes
This was mainly a problem pre-tier set SL Arcane had. Not a problem in Dragonflight.
The current burst for ST is rune → radiant spark → 3x arcane blast → arcane surge → nether tempest → barrage (ToTM while its flying) → during totm you prioritize arcane blast with nether precision > clearcasting. Which is also the priority in conserve. Essentially you arcane blast twice then clearcast then arcane blast twice again.
So you have a burst period where you use about 7 spells within 13.5s. And then go back to a 2 button rotation. And your burst is entirely scripted so you can practice and learn it over time.
6 Likes
Okay, so… how is that not the same rotation as SL with the introduction of yet another spell (Arcane Surge) into an already crowded mix? Just because it’s a static rotation and it’s the same one every time doesn’t mean it’s easy to follow all that and also keep track of everything going on in these ever more complex boss encounters that they throw at us. It’s already complex enough and when you throw Radiant Spark into the mix it’s even more clunky and awkward.
And all of that complexity exists why exactly? All of those separate cooldowns and damage multipliers could just be baked into the two key spells: TotM and Arcane Surge. Radiant Spark merged with TotM and the Rune of Power damage buff merged with Arcane Surge. And then Arcane Harmony’s stacks could be incorporated within the Arcane Charge system. Why do we have to constantly complicate things and reinvent the wheel with every expansion?
We simply have to face it at this point, it’s just bad design and I for one don’t understand why people are willing to put up with it. I am certainly not going to.
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I just came back few weeks ago and I have a 60 Mage and a 60 Spriest. I can’t stand playing either one of them. The last serious raiding I did was BT/Hyjal in TBC classic. Arcane was a beast. It was all about managing mana and doing the raid mechanics. The skill level felt about right without stressing me out. Now it’s just a complicated mess and Spriest is just about as bad if not worse. I’m old and want to keep it simple. I don’t need all this button bloat.
7 Likes
Try a dps evoker. Its basically a 5 spell rotation everything is very simple. As for mage frost is the new easier to play spec, arcane takes a bit to get use to the burst windows.
My partner who hardly plays wow had success with demon hunter and evoker mostly because they are 2 button specs at the core of it.
How is that complicated though… it takes like 20 minutes at a target dummy to perfect the burst, A Static burst… If you are not willing to learn it then i dont know honestly. Yea i agree they could merge some stuff but i dont think its bad design just because you cant pick up and master it without even learning how to do it.
If arcane burst is too complicated then just play frost honestly, frost you can easily pick up and play it without practicing or learning anything. Leave at least one interesting spec in the game without screaming Complicated
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Yeah, I’ve been playing Arcane for almost 18 years so telling me to switch to Frost because Blizzard keep needlessly complicating the Arcane rotation doesn’t go over very well…
It’s not a question of my willingness or ability to get the clunky rotation down, it’s that I just don’t want to because it’s not fun. But at the same time the spec I enjoy playing most because of its aesthetics is Arcane so you can see my problem and why I am vigorously advocating for change.
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Okay well i understand, i simply disagree that the rotation is clunky or complicated. So we can agree to disagree.
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I played Fire primarily throughout SL, didn’t play during Sanctum, came back during 9.3 and played Arcane for a bit before making the switch to Surv. I’m familiar with the old Kyrian/Harmony playstyle, but haven’t looked at anything DF Mage related.
I could probably watch a video (or actually log into my mage), but wanted to ask while I was lurking: does Arcane still have mini-burns and how does CD sync look?
My biggest issue with the old Harmony/Kyrian playstyle was how out of sync CD’s were and having to do a mini-burn . . . which is fine, but also leads to some weird M+ situations if you didn’t time correctly and depending on pulls.
Yeah I spent about a half hour on dummies then ran the new dungeon a couple times and it’s pretty easy to get the hang of and it’s pretty strong. The question I have is, is Arcane Explosion to 4 stacks then Barrage the proper AoE rotation?
1 Like