Arator the Redeemer - Midnight - Edging toward a shadow hero spec?

Classes Paladin
1

Sounds like Arathor, son of Turalyon and Alleria will play a role in the upcoming midnight expansion.

Here’s part of the synopsis of the upcoming book, emphasis mine.

He sees both of his parents in himself: his father’s high standards, his mother’s intellect, their unwavering commitment to the defense of Azeroth. But Arator exists at the conflux of their greatest strengths and weaknesses—weaknesses that are revealed as the demonic threat proves to be a former lieutenant of the Burning Legion, intent on using Azeroth to launch a new campaign of destruction.

Conflux:
A merger of rivers, or the place where rivers merge . A convergence or moving gathering of forces, people, or things.

Context:

  • Shadow/Void (increasingly being differentiated from one another) crusader/templar theme mobs in Hallowfall dungeons and events.

  • Templar/crusader themed armor in dark/shadow colours as reward from the Nightfall event

  • Beledar cycling from shadow to light

  • Arathor parents both having natural affiliation toward either shadow/void or the light that he could be carrying.

Hypothesis:
Arathor could be the creator of a new order of paladins (?) represented by the addition of a shadow/void themed hero spec.

I know some people here have very strong opinions about this.
What do you guys think?

Edit:
I forgot to mention, considering that the clash of light and shadows is the source of the Fel.

There’s also the possibility that he could embody this destructive force.

The detail splash art certainly give the feeling of both his parents powers flowing to him and making a green glow around him.

The book is also about an old Legion base and a demon so the Fel could also be coming from that but I feel this kind of details are often foreshadowing of things to come.

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2

My single most wanted class is a void themed melee/range hybrid. A void Paladin does scratch the same itch, so I would be very satisfied if we got a shadow/void hero spec in Midnight.

3

Maybe we can get a shadow pet. And spread light and dark dots everywhere. As a melee spec, I totally haven’t see that concept before.

Non sarcastic answer: meh. Followed by an ehh. Then another meh.

4

I just want his blood elf themed judgement armor.

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5

So the direction they are seemingly taking is of little interest to you I take?
What would be your preferred theme to explore as a hero spec?

Given how new classes are always heavily intertwined and woven into the expansion they are released in, if there’s no such classe added in Midnight, it will take a long time before we circle back to this theme. (TBC vs Legion - Demon Hunter)

Logistically, a new classe would make sense maybe for the Last Titan.
With the current schedule I just don’t see them fit that in anywhere else.
They are also building some theme element with the radiant song and the titans that could potentially yield a class.

So my guess is if they do go down that road of a shadow/void plate melee, it will inevitably be as a Hero spec given the context.

I could obviously be wrong, I’m just making an educated guess.

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6

I mean, I totally can see it. The Light is indifferent to good and evil, so why can’t the Shadow/Void?

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7

In the old days I’d argue this vehemently but Blizzard has diluted the concept of the HOLY Light so bad that I can’t disagree…for now.

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8

Incredibly unlikely.

9

How so?

From the context and setup I’d argue it’s become a rather likely possibility.

They shown Naaru switching, now this crystal is as well, whatever it is.

They are redeeming shadow as a power that can be used for good with Alleria.
They are reintroducing her son which is a paladin that could potentially have the same propensity to wield shadow as her.

What would be the indications they aren’t going there?

What would be the next Hero spec for paladin, in an expac that seems to already setup light vs shadow, that would emphasize their alignment with the light even more than they already do?

And I don’t think you can make them thematically more light than they already are.
So what twist is there to bring then in their saga where all 3 expacs are connected and leading into each other’s?

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10

I would go with a weapons/champions of light subclass where we can manifest weapons or champions that change our abilities, on a cd or timer. Something similar to the weapon swapping mechanic in GW2, where depending on the situation we imbue the light of a champion or weapon that might modify our TV to cleave for 10 seconds or our DS to change into a dot for single target, nothing permanent but done with cds and timers.

Edit: something like “wrath of Uther: your next TV consumes 5 HP and leaves a consecration that does times X damage over half the duration. This consumes one seal of champions” and you get 3 seals that are slow to recharge or something.

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11

His mother’s intellect? You mean the woman who does the same stupid thing over and over again with the same failed result? Love that blizzard writing.

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12

  1. There are not hero specs in this game. There are hero classes.

  2. The Void and Light are opposing forces on the cosmology chart. Wielding the void/shadow would make someone no longer a paladin.

Metzen is back, so whatever ludicrous lore breaking you are expecting to happen is less likely to happen under his watchful gaze.

13

Ok dude…
Drop the semantics, Hero specs - Hero classes - Hero Talents, whatever, who cares?
Hero class has its own meaning for sure.

But don’t play coy on what is meant with Hero specs.

Blizz called them hero talents.

They added 30+ “flavor” trees to existing classes to explore more in-depth “sub-roles/identities” of said classes.

Whatever you want to call them, it’s kind of a pointless distinction.

Something they’ve been increasingly deconstructing.
At least in term of good and evil.

Shadow Priest in the lore aren’t supposed to be able to switch to holy , they are actively insane and it could be argued they aren’t priest at all but cultist, yet here they are as a spec for priest.

By this logic they should be a separate class altogether yet aren’t, so this argument falls apart.
They did it before for convenience, they may very well do it again.

For all we know, would you be able to use such a Hero Talent on Paladin could make you something else than a paladin lore wise just as Shadow Priest makes them something else than a Priest lore wise.

The reality is, there is only soo much “fighter archetype” you can go for before they end up stepping on each other toes, they don’t have to create a whole new class for something that could be a declination of a class that is already there.

And it is not a question whether it even exist or not, it does, they are literally there in Hallowfall.

So again this alignement thing is pointless in the context of a “game”, it doesn’t bind the gameplay in the slightest.

It is a question of whether or not it will be a playable option as a Hero talent for Paladins.

If you select this hypothetical Hero talent, you’re no longer a “paladin”, you’re something else and maybe this reshapes your abilities into something with different names.

Kind of like what this guy did some years back
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/pqump6/class_skin_concept_expanding_class_fantasy_to_new/

And all his justification aren’t wild either, they come from stuff we’ve seen happened.
And it is uncanny how some of these ideas are really close to the themes we actually got for Templar and Herald.

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14

It’s incredibly pointless. The Scarlet Crusade is 100%, justifiably, evil yet their Order still has Paladins and utilizes The Light. Yrel, in Draenor’s alternate timeline enslaves everyone and enslaves them using The Light. A Naaru tries to forcibly enslave Illidan during Legion.

The Light doesn’t care about your alignment but only for your force of will, your faith and belief in your cause.

Why should the Shadow/Void be any different and have their own Paladins? Justifying embracing potential madness for the power to change the outcome of conflicts. Shouldering a burden for the greater good. Pretty Paladin if you ask me.

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15

Exactly, depending on where you would source the definition of a paladin, it doesn’t intrinsically means they have to use the light.

If we look at a DND interpretation for example (which WoW was heavily influenced by), their power comes from their commitment to their oath and the tenets they follow.

What these are could be wildly different from order to order.
In fact, in DND again, it doesn’t have to be an order, Paladin can swear an oath on a personal belief or principle.

What is less open to interpretation is their devotion to fight “evil” or fight for “justice” but even this can be subjective if from their perspective their actions are warranted to prevent what they consider to be harmful.

Ultimately, if shadows isn’t intrinsically “evil”, as Blizzard seem to be getting at, then there’s no reason shadow can’t be used to fight “evil” as well.

Edit:

It is important to note that WoW definition of paladin explicitly mention the light.
However it depends on the understanding of this definition.

Does it come from an external omnipotent narrator or does it stem from the in world understanding from the characters perspective?

Going back to Arathor specifically, light and void clashes are known to create Fel energy.

It could also be that Fel could be a possible Hero talent theme.

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16

I agree with you, Ben; I think a void-themed paladin theme of some kind (be it a glyph, a reward at the end of a quest chain, or a hero spec) would not only be awesome, but is very likely.

Since Legion, we’ve frequently been getting silver/purple “shadow” or “void” themed tier set colorations, which has continued up through the most recent tier set (Elite PvP set for TWW S2). One of our class mount colorations was even a silver/purple divine steed to match.

While transmog is not necessarily indicative of anything, I think it is interesting that this silver/purple tier set prominence began in the same expansion that we had an emphasis on the Naaru’s nature of switching from light to void. As it stands, we do not fully understand the relationship between the two cosmic forces, and what a Naaru’s role is as a conduit of them.

Seeing as Alleria is back as a central figure of the story, and with Locus Walker having been reintroduced as of the pre-patch, it is likely we will see a continuation of the story narrative surrounding the dichotomy of light & void. Since Arator himself is a Paladin, as you said, we will see how he fits in and how his perception of light and void changes and how that may be reflected in how he physically channels those powers.

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17

(Nice to run into you in-game :stuck_out_tongue: )

I think it is very interesting to pull from the lore as well with either point of view.

The term “Paladin” in lore comes from Azeroth and is still a relatively new concept not even 100 years old (second war), yet the Draeneis and trolls have had their version of it for thousands of years.

Draenei being the closest one to how humans and dwarfs first started using it.
Strickly speaking they aren’t “paladins”.

Yet all the lore and understanding we have of it stems from Azeroth sources.

Even then from these source, we understand that the first paladins were both priest and warriors.
So it’s not like they can’t wield the light as they used to as priest, this knowledge didn’t evaporate.
And so if under priest it is understood that shadow can also be used, a paladin with a priest background could also be able to use it.

There’s a point to be made that priest doesn’t even necessarily wields the light differently than paladins.

Anduin is understood to be a priest and he “lost” his connection to the light similarly to Arthas, who was a paladin.

The “loss” came because they became conflicted, from their POV, they couldn’t reconcile what they’ve done with their ideals or the oath they swore to uphold.

And so they “lost” the light because they lost their conviction.
For Arthas, he didn’t recognize that conflict and saw it as the light abandoning him, driving him even more toward the power of Frostmourne.

Anduin got heavily depressed but was able to reconcile with himself and find his convictions again and by extension his connection to the light.
It helped that, unlike Arthas, he didn’t have a corrupting force at his belt.
On the contrary, he had a memento of his father keeping him grounded.

Here’s an excerpt from Legion class preview about Discipline specifcally
https://web.archive.org/web/20151114053856/http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/19941176/legion-class-preview-series-priest-09-11-2015

Some priests pride themselves on pragmatism. They understand that light casts a shadow, that darkness is defined by light, and that true discipline stems from one’s ability to balance these opposing powers in services of a greater cause. While these priests possess many holy virtues to aid their allies, they also dabble in the dark arts to debilitate their enemies—always exercising immense discipline to keep themselves away from the brink of insanity. Many would say the ends justify the means; scriptures both virtuous and vile should be studied and understood to protect the congregation.

And another one from wowpedia.
Although this one source has since been changed, it was an older page from WoW website describing the classes.

As light cannot exist without darkness, and darkness without light, some priests tap into shadow to better understand their own abilities, as well as the abilities of those who threaten them.

If these are more profound insights, then we can assume they might be true regardless of the source of light and regardless of how we argue it is wielded.

Those are more than just two opposing forces, they complement and balance each other, one cannot exist without the presence of the other.

As we can see the lore and information we can find seems to be conflicted and contradict each other sometime, which brings us to the realisation that these power are not well understood and could evolve.

We may put that on the back of writing mistake but in the end doesn’t that make it all the more real?
How would any mortal being pretend to know the fine inner workings of these powers? We barely understand our own universe, imagine one with literal magic in it.

Finally, I’d say that while the class name is “paladin”, there’s a point to be made that it is only so because of the iconography and ideas it evocates rather than a 1 for 1 adaptation of what they were initially introduced as.
Overtime it evolved to become more of an umbrella term, whether we like it or not.

Drainei aren’t bound by that term, neither are trolls or Taurens and they aren’t called paladins in their language, we keep the term because it is socially evocative outside of the game boundaries, not because it is a precise representation of what we have in game.

And so, under this light (pun intended), there’s wiggle room for such themes to be explored.

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18

Absolutely. I don’t believe or expect we will actually get a new Void themed class… ever actually.

And honestly, the more I think about the potential of a void Paladin, the more I want it.

He was here when then made Disc priest into a Light/Shadow caster, right? Can’t see why it couldn’t happen again.

And sure, a void Paladin would not be a Paladin but would instead represent the common fantasy trope of the fallen Paladin. Yes, DK’s sort of work as an analog for this, but not under scrutiny since races that cannot be Paladins, can be DK’s.

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19

Metzen is just back for a paycheck. He has about as much control over class design as I have which is none.

20

Even if he was, he seems like the type of guy to work under the rule of “cool” rather than someone who’d burden himself about in universe obscure lore being broken.

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