I’m wondering. Considering imps only do single target damage, when dealing with AOE packs, is it better to spam Hand of gul’dan using 1 soul shard at a time (or as few as possible) considering the base spell does aoe damage or is it better to save up 3 ss and use the aoe spell 1 time to efficiently generate more single targeting imps? Like, is it better to cast the aoe spell three times, still making 3 imps less efficiently?
You almost always want to use Hand of Gul’Dan to generate 3 imps. The only exceptions to this rule are Nether Portal and Soul Conduit.
Nether Portal is obvious. You want to summon demons for it for every time you use a soul shard, not every amount of shards you spend.
Soul Conduit is a bit of a nuanced one as it is an RNG SS refund, I personally use HoG twice whenever I have 5 soul shards. Whether or not this is a good move is yet to be determined.
So, if I understand correctly, you’re saying the single target damage output from the imps will do more overall damage, than the aoe damage of Hand of Gul’dan in clumped Aoe Scenarios? Thats kind of a shame, there could be some really cool complexity there
Well, the purpose of Hand of Gul’Dan is to summon your imps. Your main AoE ability as Demo is Implosion and Implosion is one of the most important abilities for a Demonology Warlock along with Demonic Tyrant. Along with a supplemental AoE damage such as Dreadlash or Demonic Strength that either synergize with it or works differently.
Implosion will almost always do more damage than imps chucking fireballs at your target in 2+ target scenario. Considering Implosion does damage to your target based on the amount of fireball charges each of the wild imps have on your targets as well as dealing full damage to targets near it regardless of the fireball charges.
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Oh ok. So maybe I’m not using Imp Explosion enough then. On a quick trash pack, would you hit it immediately after using HoG?
If it’s on a quick trash pack, keep using HoG to pool your imps for the next pull. You don’t want to use Implosion on a dying pack unless you’re going to skip after trash.
At the same time, you don’t want to let your imps expire. If there are 2 or more targets with many imps at your disposal, feel free to use Implosion. Most people recommend 6 to 9 imps for continuous Implosion.
In a nutshell, your imps are fodders that you can pool for an AoE nuke you can do later. It is not necessarily advised to use implosion every time you use HoG. The more imps you pool for implosion, you do more damage with implosion. Obviously for every amount of imps you summoned throughout the instance… especially when you summon Demonic Tyrant.
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Ok thanks for the help. My aoe damage was low and the solution I thought of wasn’t the correct answer so I’m glad I asked here.
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Another thing you can do is using your Tyrant as often as possible in keys rather than being greedy with ST damage in terms of DeCon. Especially when you have Demonic Tyrant at your disposal along with Soul Conduit’s value (And even more so with Wilfred’s). I’m not dismissing DeCon as a talent however, as it is still one of the most important talents.
Tyrant allows you to pool imps without them expiring themselves, allowing them to chuck fireballs as many times as they want as long as the Tyrant is active. This can result you in 20+ Implosion if the fight drags out. Depending on your SS, MC and SC RNG.
Practice with Implosion. Use it often! If your area dammies are lacking for Demo, it’s most likely you aren’t using it enough. A lesson I’ve learned the hard way while climbing keys as Demo. 
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A decent general 2+ target rotation is build to 5 shards → HoG → shadowbolt → HoG → filler spell → Implosion. If you have at least 2 charges of Demonic Core, you can build to 5 shards → HoG → demonbolt → HoG → demonbolt → HoG → filler spell → Implosion. After getting that muscle-memory built, with practice you’ll start to develop a sense of when to implode and when to hold.
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https://youtu.be/PpSAK6ZWhjg watch this video.
Now, let me explain a few things for you:
1 - Hand of Guldan damage is proportional to the Shard consumption, this mean that it deals “1/3 with 1 shard, 2/3 at 2 shards and full damage at 3 shards” now with that mind, this mean that 9 hands of guldan with 1 shard each or 3 hands of guldan with 3 shards will deal the same amount of damage.
Now, let me ask…what do you think would be more dps that damage done across 3 actions [of 1,5s each] or 9 done across 9 actions [ of 1,5s each]? yes…the 3 actions.
This mean that 3 shards hog is more optimal [higher dps] than 2 shards hog who in its own is more optimal than 1 shard hog.
Now, While Imps are single target, you can use Implosion to convert it’s damage to AOE (its 1% less spell power, but that is not important) this follow a similar idea of efficiency as HOG…
A Implosion with 9 imps is more DPS than 3 Implosions of 3 Imps, even if they are the same amount of damage [because its done faster] and you should play implosion/hogs in cycles like the above linked video teaches you to.
That way you AOE[honestly, if there is 2 or more enemies rly] should be something like Generate to 5 shards> Hand of Guldan>SB>Hand of Guldan> Implosion or Generate to shards> Hand of Guldan>DB>Hand of Guldan>DB>Hand of Guldan> Implosion.
Good Luck, Have fun.
Oh cool. I thought it’s damage was the same regardless of how many shards were consumed. Thanks for clearing that up and tyvm for all the other tips. I will def watch the video you linked 
Hand of Gul’dan damage scales with the shards spent, so don’t cast it with fewer than 3 soul shards.
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I got a Weak Aura imp tracker to help with timing implosion and I’m left with more questions.
It seems each imp shoots 5 fireballs before dying. I read somewhere that they start off with 100 energy and then use 20 per fireball. That makes sense. Then I read that implosion’s damage scales based on how much energy the imp has. Is that true? How does that factor into when the optimal time to detonate is?
Also, when using the demonic calling talent, should I ever hardcast Call Dreadstalkers, or should I just wait for the proc.
And thank you everyone for being so helpful!
It is true, but only to your primary target. Every other target within range takes damage as if the imps were at full energy. It’s not worth thinking too hard about IMO, just fire them off before they expire if they’re going to hit at least 2 enemies.
Just hard cast it when it comes off CD. Most of the time you’ll have a proc, but when you don’t have one missing out on a dreadstalkers cast is worse than spending the extra time casting it.
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