If so, you need to advocate for in Alpha forum! Give feedback and be as loud/vocal as you can be. We can’t have another expansion filled with the same crappy class design.
5 Likes
it’s quite obvious they don’t care about our feedback, example: Divine Steed still staying, doubling down even with new talents that give you increased range while on it. It’s all speculation at this point cause you know Alpha being released without the talent trees of one one of the most popular classes.
4 Likes
Make enough of a fuss over it in the alpha subforum… and who knows, maybe they’ll respond.
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I wish. I would have loved to have a conversation about the class identity of paladins as it appears to be this jumbled puzzle.
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I know some like Divine Steed… i don’t really care for it.
So the best solution is to just put it in an Octagonal choice talent…
Have:
Divine Steed/Speed of Light/Pursuit of justice/Long arm of the Law whatever
Just give us another choice.
Or maybe they can make a glyph:
Speed of Light - instead of summoning your Charger you instead focus the light into your body to move are great speeds.
So basically have a holy aura around you and you move really fast.
They should also buff our mobility in general…
3 Likes
Been in every beta since MoP and it is almost always the same. Paladins = ignore.
4 Likes
That doesn’t mean we go down without a fight. Make your voice heard, and be loud! 
2 Likes
No no no, even better have 2 node choice
Divine steed vs Speed of Light
And another one being
Pursuit of Justice vs Long Arm of the Law.
So we can have 2 mobility stuff, not just one.
But seeing the divine steed duration increase on only 2 seconds, made me lose all hope for better mobility.
2 Likes
I would have wanted 2 to chose from… to have more variety and mix/match depending on content. Would be ideal.
But i was sadly being realistic. 
That sealed most hopes that they would actually give us something decent…
Go ahead and name the tier where a paladin wasn’t brought…
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Speaking from a ret main POV I can say I’ve worked against a pretty nasty stigma throughout my career. I’ve never cried that we are unplayable or anything like that but to say that Ret is treated with anything near the regard that Holy or Prot are would be disingenuous imo.
I think historically you are right, you always bring at least one Paladin, but at times I wonder if Ret has been allowed to languish because of the success of its sibling specs. I’m sure other classes can relate, but I’ve been a diehard ret for a long time so my perception is colored by that experience.
As a point of reference I’m the guy that made the thread containing the famous “Ret makes for great stories” comment we got from a blue years ago. There’s a lot of us who absolutely advocate for the spec and love it to death, but that moment encapsulated how a lot of us feel we are seen by the devs: mere novelty, not taken seriously or heard.
Anyway, I don’t say all that to defy your statement but hopefully to illustrate that while paladin has always had a place, Retribution Paladins have not spent a huge amount of time being seen favorably by the community and perhaps even the development team.
Edit: poor wording.
6 Likes
That might be per talent point, might be a 2 or 3 talent thing, dunno yet.
All Paladins should get Pursuit of Justice in the Paladin talent tree and a later talent should be Unbound Freedom vs Divine Steed.
Pursuit of Justice should replace Crusader Aura and just be a passive.
Pursuit of Justice -
- Increases Movement and Mounted Movement Speed by 20%. While Mounted all allies within your Devo Aura gain 20% movement speed.
Auras in Classic were more successful because they were all defensive traits outside of Sanctity Aura. Which later did cause problems, my TBC guild always wants a token Sanctity Aura Paladin for their raid.
Auras allowed paladins to be more versatile to the situation, but always in a defensive manner. Devo to reduced melee damage, Frost Resist to reduce frost damage, Concentration Aura to reduce interrupts, and so on.
When you have to choose between offensive and defensive, usually the offensive will always win out.
Every Paladin’s only aura should be Devo Aura.
Devotion Aura - Reduces all physical damage taken by 3%.
Then every spec of Paladin gets a talent to improve Devo Aura with their most desired trait.
Holy -
- Concentration - Improves your Devotion Aura to also reduce all incoming interrupt and silence effects by 15% and increase versatility of all allies by 3%.
Protection-
- Conviction - Improves your Devotion Aura to reflect damage back made at attackers and increase versatility of all allies by 3%.
Retribution-
- Sanctity- Improves your Devotion Aura to increase Holy Damage done by 10% and increase versatility of all allies by 3%.
So all paladins provide 3% reduced physical damage, 3% versatility and a 3rd unique spec flavor buff, similar to the new Mark of the Wild.
2 Likes
This, but Long of the Law instead of Pursuit of Justice; or perhaps as another option on the same node.
Paladin mobility is so bad that Ret should have the options of Falling Sword, Long Arm of the Law, and Seal of the Templar(Jurisdiction) in to the Ret tree while still having PoJ and Divine Steed or Unbound Freedom.
I wouldnt be against Unbound Freedom being a pve talent.
Its so good to make our immunity to movement impairing effects to also have a movement speed increase to it as a QoL. Its amazing in pvp, and would be good in m+ to help us move a little faster and being able to use it on someone thats also slow, or dealing with slow mechanics in raid like Chains or similarly, and also help others too.
Because Freedom alone isnt mobility.
That should be a ret talent though like its only a ret pvp talent, it should stay exclusive to ret.
But for the general class tree, I’d love to see 2 talents nodes that allow us to choose vs Speed of Light or Divine Steed and then Pursuit of Justice and Long Arm of the Law.
So we keep that instant mobility we need to dodge mechanics whenever we need it or to be more fluid in m+ between packs. And then we have that short burst of speed vs sustained mobility thoughout the fights to make us faster and make us flow better between adds or mechanics.
Also remove Crusader Aura and put it back literally baseline as a leveling perk and as a passive… Exactly like “On a Pale Horse” for DK in dragonflight.
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I’ve always wanted that for PVE, so would be really nice if they put it in the Ret tree.
Yes… wtb Heart of the Crusader back.
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I think Unbound Freedom is a cool paladin fantasy spell that all paladins could utilize. It would help fulfill that fantasy of being a melee healer and pushing the group forward.
I think having the option on Holy would be cool in PvP since they don’t have many offensive pressure buttons, this could be one of them.
What would the difference be between Speed of Light and Divine Steed, and Pursuit of Justice and Long Arm of the Law? Just numbers? Cause they seem to be relatively the same abilities.
Wouldn’t 20% from PoJ all the time be better than 30% when casting Judgement?
I agree with you, but its also the only unique utility spell Ret got going on along with Blessing of Sanctuary that separate them from Holy and Prot. They should stay exclusive to Ret to keep that identity. They could give hpal more damage or something offensive.
Well thats exactly my point, since they are all similar, but offer different gameplay nonetheless, they would be perfect talent node option in the Class Tree. Do you want a short burst of speed with Divine Steed or less speed but last longer on a lower cooldown? Do you prefer sustained movement speed with 15% baseline and between 5 to 15% additional from how many holy power you have, or a guaranteed 45% everytime you judge as a burst of speed.
They all sound similar but they are all quite useful in different scenario. Like Speed of Light would just be an upgrade over Divine steed because it lasts longer and has a shorter cooldown even despite offering less movement speed, it gives you enough time to be used to dodge a movement mechanic and get back in to the boss compared to Divine Steed that’s too short.
Then Pursuit of Justice is mostly prefered by pvers because you can sit on your holy power and keep the movement speed at 30% for as long as you please or need and you don’t need a target to have its effects unlike Long Arm of the Law.
And Long Arm of the Law is prefered to pvp because Judgement is ranged and its a great mobility to catch up from afar, unlike Pursuit of Justice because if you don’t have any holy power you will be moving at 15% when you need it, but with a simple judgement you get 45% for 4seconds.
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Frankly Speed of light would win out simply due to the fact Divine Steed doesn’t stack with other speed increases. So Speed of Light combined with either Long arm of the Law or Pursuit of Justice, its going to give much greater speed and or for longer.
Actually you still need a target generally to build holy power, Unless you want to waste Wake of Ashes.
Well back then you could Judge and Exorcism and you be at 25% straight away and for a long as you kept the holy power. The benefit came from not being so easily counted by roots and snares due to it not having a limited duration. Unlike Long are of the Law which only lasted 3 seconds, so any disruption during would nullify it.
The problem is, Ret no longer has that fast paced holy power generation. Making Pursuit of Justice rather limp, as you’re waiting for mainly Judgement and Blade of Justice to cooldown again. And Blade of Justice just doesn’t have the range like Exorcism did. So the consistency of speed it once provided, particularly from range is drastically reduced. I mean it could be given a buff so the speed lingers for so many seconds after spending the holy power. But that could lead to a very high up time when in melee range depending on this additional duration.
Long Arm of the Law has a similar problem, but it’s more easily solved by increasing its duration to coincide with Judgements longer cooldown. Or even allowing Blade of Justice to also trigger the effect and allowing it to stack.
But I suppose if Ret had these plus Unbound Freedom and either Divine Steed or Speed of Light it wouldn’t matter that much.
1 Like