Anyone else hate RTB?

Classes Rogue
1

I really like outlaw but the one thing that makes me dislike playing it sometimes is the reliance on RTB. I’m wondering, does anyone else also hate this rng ability or do most of you like it? I’d be really glad if they could get rid of it and then tune outlaw outside of RTB tbh.

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2

Yeah I wish I could talent out of it or something

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I made a suggestion in another forum. Make Mastery alter RTB and get rid of main gauche. The more mastery you have the higher % you have to roll a 5 stack. The damage lost from MG can be overcome by making Sinister Strike do more damage to balance out the loss of MG. They made SnD useless now that Alacrity and SnD are on the same tier so we have to use RTB. If Blizzard demands we use it then they should give us more control over the outcome.

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RTB is flavor and nothing else. Pretty much any buff is an okay buff. Than the other times it’s merk city. That’s the design. Stop focusing so much on the buffs you get. There are times to fish and other times it’s pretty much who cares.

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I could live without it. I mean, it’s cool when you’re lucky, but it sucks when you aren’t.

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No. If you want to play optimally then you absolutely need to focus on what buffs you get as depending on your stats and talents 1-2 of the buffs are useless to keep. Additionally, which buffs you currently have active can alter your play. I understand that many people just play it with whatever buffs they get and that’s fine. But to say RTB is only flavor and you shouldn’t focus on what buffs you get is very wrong.

@OP: I actually enjoyed outlaw very much in the first few months of Legion. Had a ton of fun running M+ with some guild mates. After that I gravitated back to assassination and just couldn’t muster the will to get back into outlaw. Just spent a couple hours earlier this week trying it out to see if I can enjoy it, and that’s gonna be a no from me. My average was about 2-3 rerolls before getting a buff I should keep. I also had a few unlucky streaks where I rolled 10+ times. Just can’t stomach it anymore.

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Their are optimal buffs. But there is a point at which re rolling too many times in a row isn’t good. That’s why I said there are times you can fish for “super buff mode”.

Just what I’ve seen on guides. I found I had much more fun with outlaw when I focused a little less on the RTB buffs.

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It’s great you have fun. I wouldn’t fault anyone for doing what’s most fun to them. However, that’s not what you said in your previous post. You said RTB is just flavor and nothing else, which is not true. You also said pretty much any buff is okay. Which again, is not true. Some buffs or combination of buffs can alter your rotation/priority. That’s not flavor. If you just want to have fun and don’t care about performance, then yeah you can play however you like. However, you enjoying to play that way does not make RTB just flavor or mean you shouldn’t focus on what buffs you get.

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Well I said some of the buffs are “meh” and other times it’s merk city. Maybe you should watch a guide of the pros doing it. They all say the same thing. Rolling 10 times looking for optimal buffs is massive loss. That’s why I said learning when to fish for great rolls is key.

Anyways good chat m8. You’re definately right, not gonna pretend rng of RTB isn’t a factor…but it’s been said it’s not as dependant as once was.

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Your azerite traits can affect your reroll priority as well. For instance, multiple deadshot or ace traits will warrant keeping a single ruthless precision buff. It truly feels awful when you keep a single ruthless precision buff while running 3 Ace traits and your between the eyes doesn’t crit.

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I want a trait that allows you to pick 1 of the results and remove it from the pool.

I only hate one of the buffs when it shows up.

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No doubt at all. Rolling 10 times is definitely a no no. I was mainly using that as an example of how horrible my luck can be on rolls, and I spent a bit of time on a dummy just seeing what rolls I would get and of course those unlucky streaks stick at the front of the mind :hugs: also, I may or may not have been with the in-law family for Easter and that may or may not have made my attitude a bit agitated causing my wording and such to be a bit more blunt. For that I apologize. You’re right about the rolls though.

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13

Slice and dice is, objectively, nerfing yourself.

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The real questions are by how much and does it matter for the content OP is doing. The point is that there is an alternative, not that all alternatives provide exactly the same DPS for measured content.

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Iirc, even with snake eyes x3, it’s a massive loss, like a 10+% loss.

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I actually really enjoy the randomness, and i find most of buffs useful

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17

The usefulness of most buffs decreases as you stack traits. :confused: As noted earlier, ruthlessness becomes more and more important the more deadshot and ace up your sleeve you have.

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Only when I have bad luck. If RNG favors you then RTB can be fun.

I would love it if a few of the buffs where stronger, it’s pretty sad how useless some are compared to others.

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You would think yet I actually do less damage with solo crit buff than I do with Skull and Crossbones or Broadsides on single target. I tend to have extreme streaks of getting BTE back before I even get a single SS proc with how bad my luck is and solo crit leaves you with literally zero energy. Casting 1 SS every 3-4 seconds and not having it proc or crit feels really great with solo crit. My base crit with food buff is 30% on top of that.

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There’s a lot of misinformation in this thread, especially as it pertains to “don’t re-roll 10 times!”. Straight from Ravenholdt:

“The benefits of rerolling do not change no matter how bad your luck has been so far. This means there is no point where rerolling becomes not worth it due to bad or poor luck. Due to this you should always continue to reroll until you get the buffs appropriate for your current situation.”

With the current Azerite meta, Dispatch is only worth 15% of your damage output with top-parsing luck on RTB procs. It drops from there with worse luck. This means refusing to re-roll because you’re worried about losing dispatches is nerfing at least 85% of your damage to shore up 15% of your damage. Not statistically advisable.

RTB injects some luck into the Outlaw rotation, but ultimately it’s relatively stable. Compare the error bars on Simulationcraft. Yes, the standard error is much wider on Outlaw than other classes, but only in favor of the Outlaw. The bottom range of standard error is within most other specs in the game. If you hate RTB because bad rolls are “nerfing your damage”, remember the Simcraft data. You aren’t actually nerfing your damage in the statistical average and the exceptional rolls are vastly paying off your bad rolls. Outlaw is a gambling spec where you are the house and you always win. Keep RTB, it’s well designed.

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