They didnt. This has nothing to do with adding more buttons. And IIRC, they didnt really touch bleeds either. They hurt the ToW part but that was more direct damage anyway.
I think we just didnt get tuned as well as every other spec as the seasons went on. But they didnt add buttons to our rotation. So stop going on with that nonsense please. As far as damage output, well that is a legitimate concern. But has nothing to do with our rotation as its still pretty much the same as it was in S1
Help me understand what you’re hoping for here. You don’t want long ramp times, but you also don’t want the spec shifted to more bursty damage abilities. It sounds like you want bleeds that aren’t dots?
I’m not trying to be mean, but it looks like you want two mutually exclusive things.
I think the spec should focus on two things, a very quick ramp and high burst with CDs.
Here’s what I’d want to see. Something like this.
Tigers fury removed, haste —> energy factor increased, berserk redesigned, combine some redundant buttons.
Berserk:
2 min CD. Increase your damage dealt by 25% for 20 seconds. Additionally, your shred, rake, rip, and bite hit all targets within 8 yards of you.
New Talent: Wrathful Kitty
Your rip becomes Primal Wrath, and casting it in a target consumes existing rips and deals their remaining damage to the affected targets.
Swipe and thrash combined. Thrashes initial damage increased.
Bite becomes the skill expression. Fitting in extra bites while rip ticks down in single target. Primal wrath in aoe. The CD has more impact in aoe, which allows bite’s base damage to come up.
Bite is now important in single target without . Hitting the wrong button probably s very small dps loss.
Apex and Feral Frenzy have been played in these scenarios since the start of the xpac so I’m kind of baffled you even say this. They also lowered the proc rate of Apex to make it easier to play, lowered the effect of Circle, and they added an extra charge of BT, so it’s disingenuous to say spec is any more complex than 10.02 - maybe the new tier set takes a small amount of learning, but that’s just the thing - the gameplay is supposed to vary in ways over time, if we were still playing exactly how we were at the start of the xpac then people would have been bored long ago.
You know there is decent data on warcraftlogs to completely refute this. In fact, Feral might just be the most played it has ever been right now in its history relative to playerbase size. On an anecdotal level, I’ve never had more people coming to me asking for help learning the spec than this tier.
You are an embarrassment and I’m equally ashamed people can even like such posts in good faith, especially from a lvl 50 who likely isn’t a Feral main at all.
This is such a common bad take I can’t stand to see it written once again without thought behind it. Yes it shifts you out, but that’s the price you pay for a 30 second stop, where other specs AOE stops are often 60 and even 90 second CDs. You have Predator to allow you to try align TF’s with Incap’s, you also have Dash to shift you back in, but even if you can’t use those, you are paying a small GCD cost for what is an insanely useful piece of utility.
You seemed to have missed the numerous changes Feral got every patch (10.05, 0.7, .10, .15, .20), more than other Druid specs, in addition to a good tree rework before launch. Honestly grow a pair and stop crying like a child that’s not getting any attention because you’re straight up insulting those working on the spec by being either completely uninformed or perhaps too stupid to even be aware of how much love this spec is getting, it’s embarassing even reading this. Also while a small minority will come here to complain, I can guarantee I have never seen the community more positive about Feral and happy with the way its progressing.
Genuinely (because I have not PvEd in a long while and also haven’t watched the mythic raiding scene as closely as I have in the past): is this because Feral is good in and of itself and people are excited to try it out, or because it was uniquely good for one or two of the end bosses in this raid tier? Just from seeing discussions in my guild, it seemed to me that the stars aligned for Feral to shine over Boomy in a rare instance where melee was preferred to ranged, not that Feral is in a great spot on its own – but again, I do not know which is the truth or if the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and I’m genuinely asking for your opinion.
I actually love the Feral spec talent tree, honestly, and think it’s in a great spot. There are maybe only three minor tweaks I’d make:
Other than that I think there are just minor issues of tuning – it’d be great to see a little more damage shifted back into bleeds, and I would love a little buff on Adaptive and Unbridled Swarm – but other than that, Feral in Dragonflight has been my favorite iteration.
As you know, my opinion is that the Class tree is really where the issues lie with Feral, and there are many changes to the Class tree that I would make that I think would lay a near-perfect foundation for the spec and class going forward.
My main concern with the hero trees is that Blizzard will use them to paper over these issues.
I am already anticipating that we will receive no significant changes to our class tree, but that the Druid of the Claw tree and the Elune’s Chosen tree will offer the defensive buffs that are out of reach in the class tree (through their connection with the Guardian spec) and the Druid house will be patched up and livable again, just so long as you don’t inspect the foundation too closely. I am hoping this isn’t the case, but I have hoped similarly before and been repeatedly disappointed. Though I wish it weren’t the case, this nervousness makes it difficult for me to get excited about these hero trees, and though I don’t fully share it, I understand the sentiment of dread and pessimism that can surround their reveal.
Additionally, I’m not sure if things like this are where some of the pessimism comes from, but I am still a bit frustrated by the handling of Nature’s Vigil in season 1. Feral finally had a tool that was useful and fun – and most importantly – Feral was able to capitalize on it better than Balance could. Yes, I think it was probably too powerful, but it has been effectively nerfed into the ground, as opposed to tweaked to a point where it was still viable and potentially a sought-after utility for large aoe packs. I think that it’s this kind of treatment that leads to these sentiments that we’re “neglected,” or treated as the red-headed stepchild. I don’t necessarily share those sentiments, but again, I can understand them.
To end on a positive note, I sincerely think that with some changes to the Class tree and a Windfury-esque tool – like a pre-nerf Nature’s Vigil – Feral could be in a near-perfect state and certainly the best state that I’ve ever seen it in, and at that point, I’d be truly excited to see the hero class tree reveals.
It’s good in general, through tuning/talent changes over the xpac the spec is able to obtain its single-target niche once again (should you choose to build for it, understandably at the cost of AOE), whereas at the start of the xpac the only niche it had was uncapped AOE which is not particularly relevant in most content; pretty good in certain M+ dungeons, but moreso relevant for things like MDI which is content inaccessible to most players.
The tier set does contribute to its strength in raid though, as the burst is very useful on current end bosses, but the specs baseline damage profile and talent options have improved for sure.
But yes melee was favourable this tier and Boomkin has issues particularly with their CD timings and defensives on the end bosses. But people also really like how Feral plays with the tier set, both in raid and M+ it feels good, and talent choice has also only really improved every patch.
I think the fact it isn’t meta in M+ and has also fallen behind defensively is probably restricting it from being more popular, and also the fact people want to make 2h Str alts for legendary right now. But also what many don’t understand though is a spec like Feral is just innately not going to be as popular as certain archetypes like Paladin or Hunters, but it fulfills both a fantasy and gameplay niche that others don’t and that’s what matters… but I will continue to try get as many people playing Feral as I can. I feel this xpac its far more common to see Feral’s than in the past in general but certainly there is room for growth.
I think Protective Growth may be going next xpac as its in the Grove hero tree now. RP is almost certainly getting replaced as well as I believe the nerf may have been a quick way to stop us using it with Saber Jaws existing (and by doing so opened up a tone of talent choice this raid tier with variations of mc/1-2te/iw/pw) but they didn’t have time to replace. Also think you might be mistake on how SOTF works, the refund is 3 energy per combo point, not based on Bite energy cost.
The build-a-zerk I dunno, there have been niche scenarios you could drop HOTL (extremely short fights like Eranogg), and B:Frenzy is almost replaceable in some LI/Swarm AOE builds (though not quite), so while they have been largely locked, I do kind of like the idea of having them as talents because at some points in the future, even if extremely rare, there is potential tech in dropping one or the other or both. If they merge both into Zerk that’s going to cause issues e.g. you’d have to straight up nerf these effects / Feral baseline to account for it and I think I’d rather have them feel powerful as talents as I enjoy what these talents bring.
Also yeah the Vigil change was unfortunate and a bit over the top, especially looking at the state of the game now with rework specs having stupid levels of tankyness and utility, which have facilitated MDI teams of 4 DPS. I understand why they did it, but it would be good if they applied the same standards to things like Mass Barrier or Paladin auras or Vers specs getting overtuned levels of survivability as secondaries have gone up now late into the xpac. From a M+ standpoint we lost lot of healing and require a lot of healing.
All good points and agreed with everything. And thanks for your perspective on the PvE front. Agreed especially that Feral just isn’t going to be popular — frankly, I enjoy that aspect; I don’t love playing something that everyone and their mother is also playing. I do think, though, that sometimes that leads to us getting less attention when we need it.
You’re right… but I feel like I’m going crazy, because I’m almost certain there was a point where we were being refunded less energy through something if not SotF when we used Apex Predator procs while talented into Relentless Predator. It might be that I’m just remembering wrong… perhaps it’s that I was specced into Tireless Energy and it just looked like less of a refund? Either way, good call. Clearly it’s been too long since I’ve actually looked at the tooltip.
Well I think you’re safe there I don’t think Feral will ever be the most played spec, and yeah there’s benefits to being niche, but I think the spec is so fun to play right now and wish more people get around to trying it, but various things unfortunately impact the size of its playerbase at times, but I always love hearing back from people when they try it/practice with it and fall in love with it.
Community perception is definitely still a big issue with a whole range of stigmas exist both in M+ and raid. Hell even just being on this forum I can see Feral players themselves negatively perceiving Feral as useless or worse than what it is.
I think the spec also needs a bit more passive tankyness to allow players to just focus on their rotation more and not always be on knifes edge watching HP. Ret is the most played spec and while its a popular archetype, I have no doubt the fact it has absurd tankyness contributes to the size of its player base as it really just makes the game so much comfier and easier to play. Especially a spec like Feral that tracks a number of things (ok lots of specs track various things, but we track a lot more than Ret in this example) Blizz kind of silly how far ahead they’ve let Druid get on wclogs death statistics.
Spec not really having a raid buff (MOTW good for RWF and the occasional rare guild that doesn’t have more than 1 Druid) also hurts it. Raiders would rather guaranteed be able to play than risk rolling the dice with Feral tuning each tier. E.g. Pally 2x auras needed, DH buff, Monk buff, Rogue Poison, Windfury (or two), Bshout and so on can often just guarantee many players safe raid spots. Definitely not a very equitable game by design especially when there’s so many necessary buffs limiting spots. I personally went through many terrible experiences trying to find guilds to play in before I got to where I am now purely because raid leaders perceive Feral a less valuable asset and a risk to take on.
Sound, visual effects, and animations also not as good as other specs. If you’ve played any SOD or WOTLK classic you’ll know how much better Feral abilities sound there compared to live, I know it doesn’t affect gameplay but I genuinely believe these things are so important to the ‘feel’ of your character and when I press an ability in classic and hear a Shred sound that actually sounds like I’m shredding my target to pieces or if I shift back into catform with Savage Roar up, the intimidating sound of it makes you feel powerful. Also when Moonifre and Swarm are your most perceivable visual effects really shows how lacking some of Feral’s physical abilities feel (ok Swarm is one of the best effects in the game not a fair comparison but you know what I mean). Cat animations aren’t great either, although the models themselves look cool, and hopefully they keep giving us new skins like they did this patch.
Anyway not that you asked for it but these points + what I said in previous post are some of the main things holding it back in my opinion.
This is back to vanilla…“resto or die” ^^
Since we’ve had the beta version of class talents for 66 weeks after launch, I have little/no belief that there will be anything to celebrate.
You’d think with the term Druid of the Claw that they would implement a strong bleed build.
Bearcat build plz.
i never got any kind of heads up this was said until now or i would have shown up sooner. i find it hard to believe its the most played now since it was the fotm back during antorus and everyone had a feral druid.
this alone brings me so much joy to hear though.
i havent played this druid since bfa since i server hoped twice now but this is the first time feral isnt my main but it doesnt mean i dont play it. im just not playing it at 20+ keys and mythic raiding, its lower keys and heroic
WCL still shows Feral as being one of the lesser played specs in Antorus. Even if you drop it down from Mythic to Heroic
I like the idea of playing as a cat… but feral would be so much fun if its abilities made it pounce around like a real cat.
Similar to how monk auto teleports with Skyreach and DH Felblade charges in, Feral could have a talent that made it move diagonally to the side of their target, the way cats do.
Also, maybe another button to jump back and bristle their hair. Maybe another to roll to the side. Anther to jump very high (or maybe have a passive that doubles jump distance while in cat form). IDK… but WoW cat’s just don’t feel as mobile as they should be.
Dash is really not enough.
Wild charge is what youre looking for
nah, that’s not really what I mean. Wild Charge looks lame af and is even weak compared to warrior or rogue mobility options.
I mean these type of stuff:
https://youtu.be/vQEptisMtyw?si=ghDj5d2_nSTcxEfd&t=46 https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qerL893QDTY
They had a lot more in common than that back in Vanilla → WotLK. The issue is today, they are using a design philosophy from those early days (this coming from the dev at the time…if you read the designer book that came out a couple years back). All they are going to do with the “new” druid-of-the-claw is essentially give us back the original feral druid spec. Mark my words on this and remember this day.
“Community perception is definitely still a big issue with a whole range of stigmas exist both in M+ and raid. Hell even just being on this forum I can see Feral players themselves negatively perceiving Feral as useless or worse than what it is.”
The parses coming from those activities do not lie. Feral in its current state (and future by the look of it) is abysmal at best. While you, and yes, I am talking directly to you, have the benefit of having a 5 man group that allows you to play feral, most of the player base do not. Your situation is an exception, NOT the norm. So, when talking about “how great” feral is, keep in mind, you have an exceptional case and is definitely NOT the norm.
“I think the spec also needs a bit more passive tankyness to allow players to just focus on their rotation more and not always be on knifes edge watching HP.”
We had that prior to Cata when Guardian and Feral were one tree. There was a synergy between the cat and tank. Tank could DPS and the feral had the survivability. There was a conscious decision at the time by the dev, that it was too OP. Again, 2004 is calling and wants their feral druid development philosophy back.
I agree with the rest of what you posted for the most part. I am happy you have found a group of folks that will allow you to play as you play. It is rare, but I am happy for you on that. But that being said, what you have found is the exception, not the rule.
Happy Gaming!
First of all I don’t have a group at all, all my Feral keys have been random pugs and I stopped doing keys as Feral after a few weeks because I felt I was wasting my time sitting in group finder because fools would invite lesser players on meta specs. Again it is all about stigma because I absolutely pull above my weight but would still have issues getting invites.
And no, Feral isn’t abysmal at best, you’ve literally proved my point about how people here will exaggerate tuning. It’s obviously not overtuned or +32 push meta, but it’s very solid, at worst middle of the pack.
You are coping that the spec isn’t invited because it’s abysmal, it’s not getting invited because people perceive it as abysmal. It is possible you personally are playing poorly, but again that doesn’t mean Feral is abysmal, it means, if it is the case, that you got to stop complaining about tuning and hit the books/dummies/ask me or others for help with logs or whatever else.