I’m curious how others approach simming to find their best dps. I do it in sections. Like I’ll do my azerite gear first, see which pieces are best, then to non-azerite gear, then to essences, then finally talents.
Anybody else do it this way or am I doing it completely wrong? What way do you do it?
While in no way helpful to answering the question, I just have to ask…
Perhaps I’ve never understood this unshakable obsession with optimization of throughput… it just seems like a ridiculous waste of time, something which detracts from the other and more interesting aspects of the game (for example, encounter specific mechanics). Bigger numbers just look and feel meaningless.
When it reaching the point of relying on “simulations” to determine what’s ideal… well, that’s definitely a milestone to say this is no longer a game people play for fun. Or at least not the conventional sort of enjoyment where people actually stop caring about what’s “better” and just try to have a good time.
Something just starts to feel wrong about it when people start asking these types of questions… as if they’ve lost sight of the point of why we play games in the first place.
I’ve said my piece. It’s just something to think about.
Well, you of course want to wear the gear you own that is most efficient, right? I don’t consider simming min/maxing necessarily.
One can have fun and also nitpick the gear they wear.
To be quite honest, I don’t care beyond the functional utility of it.
If it gets the job done, there’s nothing else it needs.
If anything, operating at the minimum possible requirement makes for a more interesting encounter.
Mostly for novel and unique gameplay, fun effects from mixing and matching gear to obtain interesting results. Sometimes just how flashy those combinations are.
Numbers don’t even come into play.
I understand where you’re coming from. I however enjoy the chance to play around with different gear sets and see what works best. Possibly even discovering a new and better way to maximize my dmg.
I’m also an organizer/detail-oriented person in RL and in-game. Simply just doing this kinda stuff is enjoyable to me. Bigger numbers == more dps and more dps helps my guild out during pve or pvp (obviously very dependent on spec).
I don’t rely on it, as I could care less if it was there or not but it is nice to have imo. I enjoy this kind of min/maxing and it is fun for me. Doing this has also taught me a lot about my class and the azerite powers, neck essences, gear, etc…
Some enjoy doing this kind of stuff and some don’t. Some enjoy competitiveness and some don’t. It’s just how it works.
I understand that’s how you feel, but I don’t think it’s bad for some players to derive enjoyment partially through gearing out. To each their own, in my opinion.
Breaking News.
Different people have fun in different ways.
Some people enjoy playing efficiently.
I won’t ever understand why people think their way of having fun is the only way of having fun.
Playing badly and not caring about success definitely makes it “interesting” for your group/raidmates.
I use Dungeon Slice for stat weights…I don’t have enough luck to be able to wonder which bracer is better on my DH. The only other toon I worry about is my Blood DK and that’s just use the highest ilvl you have unless you have a corruption you need to keep.
Some fair points there, I can see the enjoyment… even if I’ve personally moved beyond those particular motivations.
I guess the bigger question of why it comes across as such an obsession? Why does it feel so pervasive and oppressing, such that many feel forced into it even if it’s not something they enjoy.
Oh really now?
Why do you think that your way of having fun is the only way of having fun?
Why must everyone prescribe to this optimization and metric-driven mantra?
And besides, I’d prefer to tackle most challenges solo for a reason.
So I DON’T have to deal with people belly-aching about what’s “optimal”.
That’s what I enjoy the most about simming lol. Sounds crazy but the crazy amount of options and play styles is neat to see.
Look. If you like doing whatever “challenges” solo you are doing. And you enjoy it.
More power to you.
But I am not the one over here saying “if you like creating your own solo challenges, its a waste of time. and its a milestone that you aren’t actually having fun in the game”.
You came out swinging saying that when people are simming gear, they are no longer having fun. You left no doubt that this was wrong.
Don’t try to play the victim.
To stay on topic though. For ele shams, at least, I can’t really do it so straight up. Some of my azerite gear require specific talents and essences to work.
Example, the Storm Ele build. Works best with the VoP essence and PE talent, with Echo of the Elementals traits.
The Icefury build works best with a different essence, and different traits.
Typically its a tooon of simming when I am looking at the two different builds. I’ll have 5-6 tabs open all looking at 400-500 combos each. Because there is also worldvein essence, and how many people I need running it for it to be best to use in a raid, for example.
That is a good question. I’d like to loosely relate it to war mode. It’s been an “issue” for some because they feel they can’t go without having wm on due to the increased rewards. Some feel like it’s not fair that people in wm receive increased rewards, etc., so they feel forced to have it on.
I feel like both of those situations clearly just comes down to (for lack of a better term) self control.
copy your gear summary
sim
wear new piece of gear
copy and sim again
check the difference.
Azerite traits for DH are simple - if it does have furious gaze then wear it, if not - throw it away
because i want do more damage. Simming doesn’t take much time, but i do enjoy having 10% more damage than other demon hunter even though my ilvl is lower
200% agreement here. WoW is part RPG so that naturally part of gameplay is doing one’s best, but surely there’s limits to that somewhere. At some point you’re better off shuffling around numbers in Excel instead of logging on…
I’d be more inclined to think it’s not War Mode, though it could certainly be an aggravating factor. I’d say the existence of Raider IO is probably a more explicit (and problematic) example than people running simulations to determine what’s best.
Nevertheless, the issue is far older than War Mode… it probably goes back to Vanilla, and it feels like things have come to a head with BfA in general. It deals with the long-term evolution of the game and this long-term push towards optimization.
I guess another angle to the issue is that instead of these simulations and optimized-focused gameplay staying largely confined to the upper-echelons of difficulty… it has seeped into all aspects of the game as well. If it stayed confined to the upper reaches, it wouldn’t be anywhere near as much an issue; it arguably wouldn’t be an issue at all otherwise.
Unfortunately, it hasn’t stayed there and it causes seemingly endless grief for everyone who isn’t interested in that sort of thing.
That all being said, thank you for being far more reasonable than many others on the forums. It’s nice to get some well thought-out responses out of here for once.
I’ll not derail this thread any further.
Its also a character progression game based on gear upgrades. Should make sense a person wants to wear the best gear they can. Considering it takes like 60 seconds to actually do.
I hear a great way to get reasonable replies is to start off being reasonable. Not hoping someone looks past your unreasonable statements.
this is good, but after you find out roughly what’s best you don’t want to waste iterations on this anymore.
also be realistic. worldvein sims great but needs a lot of melee.
the best resource for sims would be your class discord however. trinkets are odd, especially with coral/inkpod being a thing and fights can require different damage profiles (hivemind is a big AoE fest)
asking questions there would give you way more relevant information to this tier specifically
The two simplest answers are that people like optimizing their character, or they play at a level where they need to optimize their characters, because they’re hitting walls where simply playing good can’t overcome them.
Worrying about how other people enjoy the game is always going to be a fruitless endeavor.