Sure but then you miss out on the conquest gear which will always have versa (a stat most will want) We can have a little contest if you want and see who fares better after a couple weeks. I don’t plan to do any dungeons and as little world pve type stuff as possible. Just mostly randoms (rated Bgs when possible)
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Have they released how conquest is going to work? I’ve been looking and all I see is the theory that it will be locked behind rating.
Sure, seeing that it comes down to how much one plays. The point being it’s far easier to spend a couple of hours getting gear to go into randoms and have a better time while upgrading the honor pieces kept in bags until they hit a ilevel that exceeds what a small time commitment upfront got me. And that’s not including any other content, such as doing stuff for you covenant.
I’m going to say, with how the PvP gear is set up now, you’ll probably be at a disadvantage if you don’t PvE and I don’t want that.
The way the system is set up just feels terrible to me currently. Honor may be infinitely farmable but that doesn’t mean a grindy system whose first couple of upgrades is superseded by spammable easy-mode content is rewarding either. And that’s not getting into when raids open and people start pushing M+ more - meaning you’ll get them in randoms - with no way to further upgrade honor at this time. If becomes reality that conquest gear gets locked behind rating than anybody who isn’t pushing that feels punished.
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Totally, this is from Blizzard themselves talking about the honour gear changes for WoD:
Second, since the basic gear is earned so quickly, that helps make sure players get those important set bonuses, trinkets, etc. without too much trouble, and helps ensure everyone is on some baseline in their ability to compete.
This should still be the goal for honour gear.
Remove the overly long grind, and make it so that PVP only players aren’t behind PVE only players in PVP, after the same amount of time spent.
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We won’t. We’ll be messing with conquest gear which begins at 190 and we’ll earn honor at the same time to fill in the gaps as we go. Honor is there to ensure that subsequent BGs/etc. completed after you get your daily conquest don’t go completely unrewarded like they do now.
I’m perfectly fine with that. As long as we continue to get heroic raid-level loot chosen at a vendor by capping snowfall GY and AFKing at farm/stables, I see no reason to expect great things from the secondary currency. Faster acquisition of honor would be good but the assumption that it’s too slow in the first place is speculative at best.
That also ensured that botters/AFKers were well rewarded for not playing, seeing as though earning honor isn’t contingent upon an individual or team’s performance. At least with conquest, you’re expected to win.
Scaling can be more than enough to establish a baseline without inviting non-participation.
Further, reaching that point at which a character is ‘done’ gearing for PvP short of participating in rated is a point of contention too. Players with multiple alts may want to get there ASAP but players like me who choose to focus on one character at a time might appreciate having something to work towards for more than two weeks.
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Wq aren’t giving up close to normal raid in the start
It boils down to the minimum effort spent in PvE low end, end game content stomps all over the baseline honor set. How rewarding is it to dump honor into a set, upgrade that set while trying to collect conquest, only to have it even close to something as heroic 5 mans after a lot of hours? I mean, it’s not worth it at all outside of a dumping honor into pieces that look like they’ll be harder to get and upgrading those, maybe.
Maybe intro PvP just needs different gearing and we need a different honor point dump.
Have you seen anything recent on how conquest will be handled? All I keep seeing is that it’s looking more like gated behind rating - not great again since it’s good to have a lot of people interested in doing PvP at all levels, not feel infinitely barred.
/sigh I have repeatedly stated WQ’s scale with your gear and as per the list, you can definitely proc LFR ilvl if you bother with your covenant at all and farming some easy modes. So, in the current build:
That’s depressing given the time investment in casual PvP content to gear vs. casual PvE content. And the person why does a little PvE content right after hitting 60 is going to be in a better position under this kind of system than someone who just goes into PvP - even if PvP is their desired endgame.
maybe you should reread my statement, there is a keyword your missing.
Very rewarding, if you ask me. Randomg BGs, the lowest and most casual form of PvP in the game, will award both heroic-raid level gear throttled in some fashion as well as gear that begins below heroic dungeon-grade to be upgraded beyond it at the same time. This sounds to me like a much more worthwhile use of my time than spamming heroic dungeons alone for gear, especially considering the availability of vers via the PvP path. I don’t share your concern that PvE will be a more efficient route.
I have not, and if they do elect to lock conquest away behind rated play only, then I’ll agree with you completely. However, I haven’t been given any reason to believe that they’ll do away with the casually-earned conquest that’s in place right now which includes daily wins, crates, WPvP, etc.
Over 600 BG’s to get gear this way with a 50% win rate. 6 days of /played time, not counting waiting in queues.
How many heroics/mythic could you have done by that time? Not to mention LFR, and normal raids.
There is no way that PVE won’t be the better way to gear yet again unless they drastically change the rewards and the grind to get them.
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Well you gear the pve way I’ll gear the pvp way and we can compare results after two weeks.
You need to agree to stop passively referring to honor as though it’s the primary currency for PvP gear if we’re going to have an honest discussion. No one is expected to earn a full and fully upgraded set of honor gear. If you choose to hold onto all the conquest that you earn rather than spend it then that’s on you.
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I’m not. I’m just pointing out that the person that does a little bit of work and skips honor gear [or doesn’t exclusively rely on it] is going to be in a better position to keep reaping the rewards of a very small time investment with WQ’s up to getting gear better than honor sooner while saving up Conquest.
I hope you’re right but I’m won’t uncross my fingers till they actually put it into the game. I’m not in disagreement with you on the Conquest rewards at all, I’d personally just like to see a more intro friendly baseline honor set that matches closer to heroic 5 mans [maybe with a price increase, don’t know, would have to look up the honor earned again vs. gear pricing to be able to say] and then allow for upgrades for those spots that end up being lower priority at the player’s choosing so they remain viable.
you are because I said merely at the start, zero conquest will be gained before raid opens, just like no m+. Meaning WQ will not go up it’s max potential in the first 2 weeks, that’s what I said.
Even in a vacuum without giving consideration to conquest:
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Heroic dungeons offer 170 gear at random
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Honor gear is player selected at a vendor and while it begins below ilevel 170, it can be upgraded beyond that point up to 190.
Those to me are roughly equivalent already, but the PvP path elevates itself when you factor in conquest (you’re not earning progress towards LFR gear in heroic 5 mans) and stat weights (namely versatility).
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Heroics will be random drops where honor gear you’ll be able to choose what piece you want.
bg will also have a chance to still drop gear unless they removed this here recently in the last build
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Even better.
The proof will be in the pudding. Come back in mid-November and ask this question in the forums:
“What’s the best way to gear up for PVP?”
Without any significant changes, my guess is the answer to that question will be: “PVE”
Kind of my point - even out the time difference between the two. PvP has the upfront cost of grinding out the currency to be able to select what you’d like while you can run heroics quickly but at the mercy of RNG. Sure, you can run a heroic and not get something but the time invested is typically smaller and the gear better for more than one area of content than the time investment to get and then upgrade honor.
Conquest definitely is a factor, but at the same time, speaking of vers, how many players do you think solely do PvP vs. those who do PvP with some form of PvE? If we flip this and tell players that if they want to PvP they need vers gear and they can get it by PvPing only for them to find out that the baseline gear is way below their PvE and it’s going to take a bit to either upgrade via honor or earn conquest - is that a good system they’re going to want to stay in?
When people go into certain gameplay they typically don’t like to go backward in their gear to get anywhere. Honestly, thinking about this more - I’m more frustrated with this system if we’re going to have gear that’s heavy in one stat and makes me want to say get rid of at least some of the upgrades, raise baseline, and let people feel like they can be involved in PvP while not slamming into a wall.
Was never talking about M+, just baseline mythic but zoned that they open at the same time. So two weeks of building up ilvl to proc greater WQ rewards which will be easier via PvE than PvP.
I know you weren’t. But if you dont believe people will be in bgs and skirms pumping it out, I got a bridge to sell you.