Antumbra, Shadow of the Cosmos - The sun is evil!

Those three are already in Uldaman… Furthermore being Vikings one would think they would be the Terrans’ Progenitors though not the Protoss or Zerg’s…

Technically speaking the Protoss, Zerg and Terrans being the First Ones would mean StarCraft is before WarCraft and thus WarCraft would be before the Lost Vikings!

Of course the Lost Vikings involves Time Travel so Dwarves winding up on Earth and becoming Vikings due to said Time Travel is easy to imagine. They already look the part due to wearing helmets based on Dwarves.

I don’t think this is all an anti-theist agenda either. I think it’s all just basic escalation narrative that you see in various media.

Take DC Comics as an example.

Back in the 40s, the “Big Deal Threats” were primarily to a city, state or country. The 50s to 70s, it would be a world. But then in the 80s, they kicked it up a notch and suddenly the fate of the entire multiverse is the “Big Deal Threat”.

After Crisis on Infinite Earths ended the multiverse, DC floundered looking for new “Big Deal Threats” that would get the reader base invested. Plenty of universe-level threats came and went. Earth-level threats were pretty much the bread and butter of Justice League stories. Anything less might be a short arc in a title. There were certainly exceptions for individual heroes, but for the “Big Deal Threats”? Nothing seemed to work.

Until the next “Big Deal Threat” was to literally recreate the multiverse again. Just to threaten it again.

Now multiverse-level threats come around every three or four years, because nothing else can feel Big when your heroes have literally saved all of every existence five or six times now. Oh, someone wants to blow up Earth? Send the same exact team of heroes, still running around, who saved an infinite number of Earths to stop him. And now it’s reached a point where even saving the multiverse is old hat.

So lets save multiple multiverses!

WoW is facing that same problem with its heroes, just not to that scale. We’ve killed demigods, we’ve killed god-tier beings, and we save Azeroth practically on an annual basis at this point. It’s been escalated to the point where saving Azeroth is, by proxy, saving the universe when we beat up Zovaal.

Taking those same Maw Walking Champions of Azeroth who just beat up Death Satan and his little brother, and sending them to beat up a humble little elemental lord who got summoned too soon feels off in terms of force deployment to threat level. It’s firing a nuke at a bank robber. It’s sending the entire military against a trespasser. As much as some of us among the player base might want to have our characters face more scaled down and personal threats (I’m one of those players), it’s narratively unsatisfying.

So the logical next step, after we beat up Death Satan, is to beat up the other Satans.

It’s not a political or religious agenda. It’s just escalation narrative.

Nope.

It would mean that because Starcraft takes place in a universe with an Earth and in the 24th century and vikings were around far before the 24th century, that the Lost Vikings came before Starcraft, which came before Warcraft if Starcraft is the home of the progenitors.

As the progenitors of the progenitors, the Lost Vikings are the gods-of-gods. Them having avatars that appear in the worlds created by their children is not unusual. A good parent will look at what their kids created.

The Lost Vikings started it all.

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Now you’re starting to understand what I’ve been criticizing all this time and why. Given some of the… responses, I got for what I’ve said - especially concerning Xe’ra and Yrel, I imagine it’d unfortunately be lapped up by parts of the fanbase.

Maybe, though given the sudden shift in some cases, my concern remains.

I guess we do have the same concerns, I think people mostly have a problem with the way you word things. Sometimes it worded in a such a way that it looks like your defending something when you really aren’t

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Another thing to note is that a lot of Shadowlands direction came from Afrasiabi too, which those directions of such have now been handed over to Denuser since he got snipped. But yeah, sadly they all have a part to share in the chaos of ‘lore’ that is - Shadowlands.

Fortunately, we have the fantastic loophole within the book of ’Grimoire of Shadowlands and beyond’ towards it being written from the perspective of a Broker. Personally I’m hoping that an Etherael book is released in the future which has a perspective of a vise-versa situation of the Titans 3D printing all of them - put things in a loop of mystery before revealing they all came to being in their own cosmic space - somewhat like Chronicles originally of sorts with the Titans.

Sargeras did nothing wrong.

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Welcome back Dornheim, this place has changed a lot since you left. Mostly for the better, you haven’t changed I see.

Is that your archnemesis?

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A Dornhiem Sylvanas rant thread was the first thread I ever posted on. I got banned 24 hours later.

So, in short, yes.

But I’ve just blocked him at this point. No point in arguing with someone who can’t see the story or where the story is going.

He’s just being rude.

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First Ones are ducks.

I am 100% committed to it.

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Correction: The First Ones were made by ducks.

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The ducks were created by Space Badgers who were the duckiest of Badgers who ever did space badger stuff.

And I’m sticking with it

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So THAT’S why we haven’t seen any ducks in WoW yet! :thinking: :astonished: :point_up:

My 20 min photoshop contribution :slight_smile:

Arbiter An’she

Imgur

All credit to the person who drew that Tauren before I ruined it. :)))

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That’s pretty damn cool

Thanks :slight_smile:

This was just for fun, honestly I don’t think Zovaal was ever meant to be An’she. I think he was meant to be built up better or more in depth but time simply ran out.

Even the “Leaked concept art” for Zovaal wasn’t really themed around a fallen An’she.



If I had to guess, I would say:

  • The Winter Queen will eventually be confirmed as Lo’Sho, or heavily implied.

  • Elune will be part of the Pantheon of Life, but not the main leader of it.
    • This would fit in with the “Upstart goddess” remark, where she isn’t the leader, but wants to be.
    • She will probably still aid us in the final battle with Zovaal

  • An’she on the other hand sounds as if he will be the leader of the Light Pantheon, which we will find out more come the Shadow vs Light expansion…


That’s just the impression I get. Nothing malicious, nothing intentional, just trying to tell a story… =/

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It would be interesting if The Winter Queen wasn’t originally part of the death pantheon but instead is part of the life pantheon that was placed into the Shadowlands. In order to ensure that the cycle of reincarnation for the Wild Gods is working as intended. I think this is actually implied as the Primus, the Archon, Daddy D and Uncle Z refer to each other as “siblings” while the Winter Queen doesn’t iirc. I could be wrong though. However it could be that the Winter Queens long time staying in the Shadowlands has attuned her to it.

The Winter Queen being Lo’Sho is most likely going to happen. With Elune and An’she as her siblings.

Although there is that boss encounter in the upcoming raid that has a prototype body of the Winter Queen and Zereth Mortis is the Shadowlands Zereth. So /shrug. However their bodies are more like Avatarish constructs much like what Aggramar had while he was under Sargeras’ control.

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I’m liking Yvens idea more and more lately to be honest. I like the idea that the First Ones took spirits of the cosmic gods/entities and bound each patheon to a robotic body because in reality all 6 forces are innately chaotic and cruel by nature and the First Ones are incapable of perceiving anything that isn’t Orderly and has a strict purpose

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The First Ones’ pattern suggests that the System was eventually meant to crash down so the First Ones seem less interested in Order and more interested in getting Mortals created powerful enough to kill the Gods in the First Ones’ stead!

The Purpose was likely supposed to ready existence for the showdown against the Gods.

Of course as for what the First Ones will do after the Gods go down: A division will likely ensue: Order(Vorlons) vs Chaos(Shadows) in other words.

Considering the Vorlons and Shadows(the First Ones of Babylon 5) forgot their way themselves the First Ones of WoW forgetting their way and winding up as problematic as the Gods they got us to dethrone is expected.

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And yet you don’t see the problem with a certain female character literally being sacrificed to give “cool points” to a certain male character.

Part of female characters being poorly written includes them being villain batted; I see Xe’ra’s attempted Lightforging of Illidan the same way many others (including myself after learning about some devs’ dark sides) see Sylvanas burning Teldrassil - and I think both story beats came from the mind of Afrasiabi, which explains a lot.