Even in universe the blame is rather firmly shifted to SI7’s bad intel gathering and Saurfang’s ‘genius’ feint.
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I think part of the problem is that strategic decisions aren’t in your face enough. They have to tell us he underestimated Sylvanas. There’s no cinematic that can really show that in game. Very in your face. We are going to free N’zoth in front of our eyes.
And look at the Xal’atath questline too. We made a bad decision. And on top of that for the Horde we were compelled to hand the dagger to Sylvanas.
I’d contrast that tbh with our character. Look at the dumb things we are going to do in 8.2 that cause even more disasters. That is a clear action in game causing a very clear reaction by our enemies.
There has not yet been a scene that shows Anduin failing on screen. At most it’s just him contemplating about something.
BTS illustrated that Anduin loves the Alliance but wants his version of the Alliance to exist long term. He tries to reconcile his ambitions with the realities of the Alliance. In the novel he repeatedly faces growing backlash and consequences for his idealism, with the tragedy of the Gathering being the crescendo of that. Ol’ Emma wouldn’t be grieving and facing immeasurable loss and her sons would be alive. Not to diminish Sylvanas’s insanity in Arathi, but she wouldn’t have been able to murder part of UC’s interim government if Anduin had not given her the opportunity to paint them all as Alliance defectors. I liked how his peacemaking was not only rejected by Shaw and Rogers, but also the Stormwind humans in general, who were pissed off by Anduin’s conciliatory attitude towards the Forsaken, especially after the Wrathgate and invasion of Gilneas.
It was telling how Anduin doesn’t feel the need to provide an heir. Genn repeatedly warns of the consequences of the end of the Wrynn bloodline and the very real potential of infighting within the nobility, but Anduin brushes it off. Repeatedly. Throughout the entire book. To the point where he’s lashing out at Genn for having the arrogance to question the High King’s priorities. Like dude…how tough is it to come to an arrangement with Tess, or one of the minor noble families to provide a royal consort. But none of this matters anyways because BFA provides the heiress of one or two most powerful bloodlines in the series ---- Fordragon and potentially Menethil ---- so Anduin can marry for love and power at the same time, crisis averted.
It would have been interesting to see what route Anduin would ultimately choose—be selfish and marry his true love Wrathion, or ultimately act in the best interest of Stormwind and avert a potential political maelstrom should he die young.
We’ve never seen the consequences of a leader going against Anduin’s wishes so explicitly. Shaw and Genn tiptoe around Anduin’s priorities but never as openly as Tyrande. I’m of the opinion that Anduin’s ambitions outstrip his idealism, and that he wouldn’t let such a useful asset like the Night Elves stray too far out of reach. He’s too proactive of a character to let such disharmony within the Alliance leadership slide. I would hope Tyrande’s conflict with the High King comes to a head once she hears of his machinations with Saurfang, and the Alliance would finally have its long deserved infighting.
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He did almost die when Garrosh smashed the Doom Bell on him, that one time.
So? Pointing at other characters and saying “It happened to them too!!!” doesn’t change anything. It certainly doesn’t disprove the point. If I say the sea is blue and you say but so is the sky, it doesn’t mean the sea isn’t blue. Your argument does literally nothing to disprove my point.
No because the whole point is he wants peace. Since Lordaeron his focus has been on removing Sylvanas because he feels if she is out of the way, peace can be achieved.
What you believe doesn’t really mean much in a lore debate because we aren’t discussing speculation but the reality of what is in game. Blizzard’s indication is the Horde was perfectly justified and right in what they did. Withdrawing wouldn’t have made a difference. I might point out that Gul’dan was literally being protected by Sargaras from the other side of the portal at the time. Try walking up to him in the scenario and see what one shots you.
Even then killing Gul’dan wouldn’t have stopped the Legion invasion and it would come at the cost of all the Horde’s champions and most if not all the Alliances. What makes you think that if they had remained the Alliance would have still been able to escape? Are you so sure the Skyfire could handle being attacked by three Legion warships simultaneously? It isn’t bravery to die for no reason. It is stupidity.
The Broken Shore was a death trap the Legion lead us into. Shaw literally says as much. We weren’t going to win there.
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they did kind of develop him learning to be more warrior like as his father with him becoming a paladin and such
that book actually sounds kind of interesting. i haven’t read it only the key plot points
Already covered above.
And what is your point? That Anduin is somehow the worse character in WoW, when if anything he is simply par for the course.
He wants peace and now he is going to war to get that peace. Clearly he is not getting what he truly wants. And I honestly doubt even after the end of BfA we will get a truly lasting peace between the factions.
We saw the Skyfire literally mow down some of the most powerful demons the Legion had summoned at that point. Also, killing Gul’dan was always going to hinder the Legion’s invasion dramatically, hence why he was the target on an entire raid!
The Broken shore was always a death trap/a desperate stand, it was sold as nothing else but that!
Hence, why the Alliance was waiting for backup to hopefully finish said fight. And yes, I did walk up to him to see why Varian ended up chatting with him as oppose to trying to slice him open. I’d also point the Skyfire survive a firefight with Deathwing, she could certain stand against a few legion airships.
The entire reason the Council of Three exists is to keep Ironforge from being a competitor to Stormwind being the stable center of the alliance.
Because Tyrande is Blizzard’s usual go to for the alliance doing something stupid.
Teldrassil happened just so Anduin and Saurfang could feel bad. The real tragedy is that Anduin will brush off the Kal’dorei’s grievances and loss with some canned, empty talk of “peace” and “forgiveness” solely to maintain the status quo. There will be no reconciliation for their loss.
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As much as I want to agree with I can’t, not completely. He realized what a failure Teldrassil was and in Lorderon he was basically baited. So while he personally hasn’t suffered he has seen the consequences of bad decision making, but the worst is yet to come. He has yet to face Tyrande for his Saurfang decision, and that I think will be personal.
Now this I can agree with.
Wait, what?! Anduin didn’t lead sh!t. That was Velen, Genn in some areas, and Khadgar. He is far too experienced to be leading this war. He should have handed it off a long time ago. So as a war leader, his judgment can’t be trusted. He got duped in Lorderon and when he had the chance to push this war foward to end it faster, he chose to stay stay his hand so the Alliance isn’t like Sylvanas.
In either Elegy or BtS he mentions how 3 of the Alliance leaders are priests, but it it seems that only one of them are willing to do what’s necessary. He’s too concerned with the hordes people and not ending the war.
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First off, there were plenty of other battles happening outside the the Broken Shore. As shown by Jaina’s comic and A Good War, the war was raging outside the players purview. Second, he didnt stay his hand, he literally targeted Sylvanas’ main powerbase, hell he knew it could be trapped but he also knew the Horde would fall apart if Sylvanas was killed/captured. Hence, why Lordearon was the most important target.
Sure, sure… that´s why the actual beligerent angle is gonna be replaced with “and see, we only can achieve things if we ignore the bad blood and work together, as I´ve been telling tou sillies!!!”, amrite?
Anduin is a trash character precisely cause -as Galenar put it- the narrative bends itself and breaks itself to make him look “right”. To give him the luxury of telling eveybody “See, I was right, I told you so!!” figuratively speaking.
The magic bones just cimented him as a bad shonen anime prot hero (he´s the Boruto of this mess, no more and no less). How someone like you that apparently liked Vol´jin can come to defend this garbage tier character is a wonder…
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the entirety of BfA so far has been Anduin doubting and questioning himself in the few plot points when he actually makes an appearance.
“the idea of ignoring bad blood and working together to achieve things” is also not unique to anduin but been a part of warcrafts message since WC3
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His For the Alliance in the cinematic is really deep when you think about how much this war has hurt him…
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Ireelevant regarding what I mentioned… you can´t come and say he´s no perfect Gary Stu pet character because he “fails” just to inmediately come with a bunch of excuses to defend the writers bending the narrative to make him right 100% of the times.
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they haven’t made him right 100% of the time. sure his worldview and goals tend to win out or be encouraged by the story narrative, but he himself and his actions are not always right nor does he always win.
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U-hu. The whole of BfA would love to have a word with you, It´s not like Genn and Turalyon literally made a 180 characterization wise for the lols just to propel Golden´s agenda regarding her pet in BtS (cause to judge a whole race not by the actions they have sytemathically taken for years but because “muh Master Alonsus!! -who btw is as Forsaken as Lor´themar is a Velf-” is totes coherent!!)
Stop trying to defend the undefensible… people with more than a functional brain cell can see how awful is Anduin as a character (he´s HuMaN pOtEnTiAl Med´an, no more and no less… magic bones and all)
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the entire prologue to the expansion is anduin radically failing on all fronts. war of thorns, teldrassil, battle for lordaeron. all essentially defeats of the alliance under anduins leadership.
i haven’t read before the storm but glancing over the major plot points even here anduin is shown to fail. him being naive with return to the gathering and sylvanas ends up costing the lives of countless forsaken and humans.
all these things show anduin failing.
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He “seems to fail” but the conclussion of the narrative ALWAYS vindicates his point, ergo he never truly fails.
Why t f are you defending a character if you ignore wide portions of his lore?
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