I just want to expose some ideas about the M+ and how keys mechanically work. Let me talk about two different ideas:
1 - And if the keys not really break. Today we have only two things happening : (a) if we finish it on time the key upgrades one level; (b) if we don’t time the key it will lost one level regardless if we finish it or not. The idea is to break the case (b) in other two cases: (b1) if we don’t time the key but we finish it, the key will not lost the level, but the key may change; (b2) if we don’t time the key and we don’t finish it, then happens as already is.
2 - Today the key is associated with a dungeon and a level, and if the key is associated only to the level but not to a dungeon? The idea is quite self-explanatory: you have a key 10, then you can do any dungeon 10 as you want. If I want to farm on Atal’dazar, why is that a problem? We already do this kind of farm, so this kind of change will only improve our quality of life.
What do you guys think?
I actually think both ideas are good.
I think a key depleting if you are over time is the games way of getting people to play at their level and I think this is a good think.
The key bring for a level is never something that blizzard would go for since then mono e would do half their dungeons and they don’t want their assets to not be used.
3 Likes
- Remove the entire keystone system
- Clicking the font of power will open up a difficulty selection menu, pick any difficulty level you want, even something absurd like a +20 when you are undergeared
If you want to get people to “play at their level” and not get unfairly rewarded by smashing their head for powerful loot then put a timer cap on the end-of-run chest, if you are 20% over timer (subject to tuning) the end of run chest will despawn with no loot for anyone.
This entire keystone system will be a stupid broken idea as long as dungeon difficulty is all over the place with minimal attention by blizzard (ie. the same care they give to class/spec balance) yet they are meant to be treated “equal” for the purpose of ilvl rewards.
KR will remain stupidly overtuned in patch 8.3 (yes after the further nerfs) and the rewards to justify that difficulty relative to other dungeons are … ? a stupid ground mount ?
2 Likes
i can see this train of thought, but at the same time if people arent touching any particular dung then it would force blizzard to take a look at those dungeons and see why they arent being play
For instance, right now i know that KR a lot of people hate, as well as tol dagor (and not just because of gate skips) where its just way overtuned
I just think you should be able to start a dungeon at the highest you’ve unlocked for it. Like if your highest Shrine was a 9 and you +3’d it, you’ve permanently unlocked up to Shrine 12. Force people to actually spend some effort building up the dungeon, but not to do entire catch-up runs if the timer runs out.
If blizzard is worried about their assets going to waste then put some SERIOUS effort into balancing them, and no I don’t mean small numerical changes. I mean large systematic changes such as changing trash pack size, removing entire abilities, changing trash pack positioning, ability frequency, etc.
For example take the trash in ML and just wholesale cut 1/3 of it out of the dungeon. For the remaining trash every single casted ability can now be interrupted by standard interrupt abilities, including the weapon testers, war machines and masterminds. Non-elites now no longer trigger bursting or bolstering.
If that sounds too difficult then put some significantly stronger rewards into those harder dungeons. No I don’t mean garbage cosmetics like mounts and transmog. I mean better gear, notably weapons and trinkets. Then if you get this key you know it will be noticeably harder but there will also be something better waiting in the end, and yes in this context I mean the same key level. For example a KR + 10 will be changed to drop much more powerful trinkets for all roles than an FH + 10.
We all know that modern blizz LOVES to take the easy lazy way out so I’m 120% sure they would prefer the latter choice if they had to decide.
The problem with all that is people will just be able to farm literally whatever they want. Take example the kr weapon for warriors. I mean you can almost do this now but it’s at least somewhat limited by who’s got a 10+ kr key in lfg who could use a warrior dps/tank or what your key or your friends keys rolls out to be. Either that or people who only want to run one key a week will only run fh or ad to just blow through. This basically keeps people on that treadmill which in this genre isn’t the worst thing as it keeps us with something to do or something to achieve throughout a patch cycle.
Yes it’s called choice, something that retail WoW needs desperately more of these days
The KR sword is good for warriors ? so for them it’s a greater reward coming from a greater challenge in the form of running KR. That sounds exactly how the M+ system should be, and not subject to the whims of stupid soulbound keystones.
I’m sitting here this week with 3 characters. Two of them need KR for the KSM acheive and the one who doesn’t has the KR key. Since it’s soulbound there is nothing I can do about this except beg that some decent group will take me. In my system it would be “ok I need KR lets go” the end with no RNG bullsh*t.
Then the people who would rather just raid log for the week would endlessly qq that that m+ is even EASIER without the inherent rng. I’m not going to totally disagree with you, although I’m not sure I’m in favor neither. I like the grift system in Diablo, but this is wow a completely different style of game where there should be some form of risk and consequence.
I want something that allows you to roll dungeon AND affixes for a gold price and that gold price goes up with successive rolls of the key in a period of time.
I dislike static affixes because some of them like explosive and sanguine are just impossible when multiboxing and that’s how I get my enjoyment from the game.
Of course it’s really for everyone who got a key and just logs off for the week in disgust. It could be your class (been there!) or the affixes for the week or the level.
The weekly affix system would still exist and that’s what people would get by default. But every roll of the dice could produce different affixes and dungeon. So you might get really lucky or you might get a dead key and the gold price for instance would be another instrument against inflation.
I wouldn’t be opposed to something like that, I think for checks and balances purposes it should downrank your key though. Otherwise you’ll just see a bunch of people roll over and over and you’ll just get a bunch of Fort/raging/volcanic keys dominating the leader boards while the rest are struggling through whatever the rng provides.
The price could be the downrank to the key. I’m just thinking in terms of punitive cost to rerolling it should probably scale based on exactly what you’re saying.
Except these systems were literally adapted from diablo systems by previous diablo developers working as lead devs on legion, including jay wilson
So we bring something over to WoW and then distort it with layers of BS to fit with WoW ? Why ?