I have played my Frost DK as my main for most of my time playing WOW since Wrath. I love my Obliterate-build Frost DK and love the DK theme more than Pally, but the reason I main a Pally now, is that, although Ret Pally is similar to Frost DK, Ret can do almost the same damage up close or at medium range. Since almost all of Ret Paladin’s attacks can hit at range and do nearly as much damage as in melee, it makes DPSing while dodging all the anti-melee mechanics that are so prevalent these days so much easier with Ret.
I know that Frost DK and DK in general can do some ranged damage, but Frost does far more damage staying in melee range. This was not always the case, I don’t remember exactly when, but Ret did not always hit at range with most of it’s abilities.
I don’t know about all that, but when I went into LFR as ret-off spec on my prot pally and did pretty well after only practicing at target dummy for 20 minutes, I knew ret had something special.
Not knocking it at all. A spec you can play decently after 20 minutes practice is worthwhile in the game.
Ret is an easy spec to play reasonably well, but the extra range on the attacks makes it way easier than most melee DPS. I don’t want a spec that is too complicated (which is why I like Frost DK, Ret Paladin, Fury Warrior), since my main love in this life is the liquid sunshine that is IPA (particularly strong PNW IPAs).
Druid and Paladin are not runaway favorites in other fantasy settings, nor is there any special design favoritism given to them, beyond their basic design.
Your point is that ret has things that other melee does not, and I agree. But I would choose multiple, highly effective self sustain as the main draw for the class, along with having all of the same features that make other classes appealing, such as on-demand burst, interrupts, stuns, multiple dashes, baked in-aoe, the unique invincibility, and the not trivial higher natural armor. It’s a solid class with no clearly visible downside. Oh and it can respect to tank and healer.
Blizzard lost the thread on class design, allowing paladin and druid to vastly surpass the effectiveness of everything else. Absurd self sustain in all content must be addressed, along with the progression design that favors only aoe dps and gear improvement. They’ve trivialized all of their own difficulty outside of “numbers go up” dungeon scaling, and this is part of why both the classes and the content is so uninteresting.
I mainly made this thread with the hopes that Blizz might make Frost DKs more similar to RET. My style is more DK, I had a thing for 90s goth girls (in the 90s, none of my relationships from that time worked out, and they probably are not as attractive as they were in the 90s, well neither am I for that matter) and love black and death metal.
I also like the German band D’Artanagan (yeah they have a French name), but everyone has strange interests.
Ret is popular because it’s well designed. Frost dk is pretty great now too though. Although i think they need to drop the thing with death and decay cleave. That spell just doesn’t fit their brand. It should be ties to remorseless winter.
I miss when paladins had loads of anti-demon/undead abilities. I think the only thing they got now is Turn Evil which I am surprised they brought back at all.
I’m all for that. Honestly, if either unholy or frost had the feel of ret, I don’t think I’d give pally a second look. I LOVE DKs and like the aesthetic better than paladin. I wish they were as good and ret.
Frost had Death and Decay in the beginning and then they took it away for a long time and then gave it back and now they are taking it away. I like Death and Decay for the cleave, but I hate having extra abilities on my bar.
That’s the point. It’s an extra ability that you don’t use for any reason other than the cleave. They already have remorseless winter, so the cleave should just be tied to that. That would be entirely better because it moves with you.
Actually how about this? Frostscythe could be change to be the cleave mechanic. Have it so during remorseless winter your obliterate becomes frostscythe. Save another button.