Specific group sizes to content isn’t new. Dungeons take 5, raids take a minimum of 10.
And recruiting for 10 man in BC wasn’t exactly easy either.
(Then expanding to 25 even harder.)
Flex mythic without rewarding achievements is still an issue because you just set up third party sites instead since Blizzard won’t provide something that it should.
The only argument against the current raid size eventually devolves into: Why can’t I solo it?
It does affect me.
What part of flex mythic raiding changing group size per fight are you not comprehending?
You have no idea what you’re talking about.
The major difference here is that dungeons always take 5, whether you’re running normal dungeons or M+25. There is never a point in dungeons where the next step up in difficulty has a hard limit on player count that could reasonably differ from the previous difficulty.
Yes it was. And most of the same problems existed then. Any time difficulty X expects/allows a different number of players than difficulty X + 1, this problem is going to continue to exist.
So what? Third party sites still exist even with the current system. If players want to subscribe to a ranking system for 17-player mythic boss kills, why not let them?
Again, you’re trying to shift focus away from the group of people that I’m most concerned about.
If you care about CE, you would never experience a raid size except for the static scaling of 20. You say I have no idea what I’m talking about, yet every response you give me ignores the single most important aspect of my suggestion. In order to get CE or any other achievement, you have to toggle static 20 player scaling, exactly the same as you have today. For people that simply want to do the content but don’t want exactly 20, they can toggle flex mode at which point they are ineligible for those achievements.
You want Flex Mythic, but your solution includes Blizzard to go out of their way to create an inferior version which is just needless.
No, you don’t get to dictate how easy or hard it is to find 10 people.
So you want a seperate system for flex… lol no.
If you want to raid mythic adhere to the rules of mythic. Stop trying to have the game cater to you for an easy mode mythic.
From a rewards standpoint, as one of those folks that likes to raid, does Heroic, and doesn’t step into Mythic, I feel like most everything in the game can be completed at somewhere between Champion/Heroic ilvl gear. Mythic level gear is mostly icing on a cake that doesn’t really require much more icing. So, my desire to try Mythic raids on my adult schedule is solely just for the challenge of it.
Also, transmog is a part of it. Some Mythic sets are awesome, cand could entice some people to want to give it a whirl. But, with the upgrades and the catalyst, that’s pretty much become moot.
It might be needless for the players who already engage in the current mythic raiding system. But there are players who would like to try mythic raiding for whom the current barriers to entry unrelated to how well they can contribute or even lead a raid dissuade them from trying it.
Sorry, I misread the way you had said about not being easy. I thought you had said “it was hard.” I was trying to agree with that point. My mistake.
The ironic thing is I’ve even said that I would be okay with fights being tuned harder for flex than 20, up to an including fights that require exactly X players where X > 10 being genuinely impossible. I’m not asking for easy mode. I’m asking for raid teams and individuals to be able to continue their progress once they’ve completed AOTC without needing to intentionally recruit more than 20 only to tell some portion of their raid team they aren’t welcome to raid (but are expected to remain raid ready at the scheduled raid times).
That doesn’t change the fact that flex makes it easier.
The next progression is mythic with 20 people. Do you honestly think mythic teams use the same 20 people for every fight? No we get rotated in and out. It’s part of mythic.
If people can’t handle being rotated in and out then they need to stay at aotc.
In the end you’re asking for special treatment for people too lazy to put forth the basic effort to get into mythic.
Your idea is still bad.
I never said players would always be stuck on the bench. But the system still requires players to show up to a raid night and not be able to raid.
Moreover, this is literally the only PvE progression system in WoW that exists like this. Everywhere else going from level X to level X + 1 doesn’t change the number of players that are allowed to be brought.
An argument based entirely on assigning the motivation of other people is not a valid argument. You don’t like my idea, okay cool. We can agree to disagree.
But players not wanting to leave their current social circle isn’t being lazy. Raid teams not wanting to recruit players they don’t know which could change the dynamic of that circle is not lazy. Yes, there will be players who want to be lazy and reap all the benefits; I would be right beside you telling them they need to put in some effort. But telling players who are able to conquer one progression level early in the season that the only path to the next progression level is to significantly change their social circle in a game that’s designed around socialization is ridiculous.
Please don’t apply for any jobs with Blizzard.
Yet people are getting rotated so unless it’s a prog night you’re still raiding. And even then it’s actually nice to have that small break in raiding. You also don’t have to be online sitting at the entrance waiting.
And it’s considered the hardest content in the game which isn’t has select rules. If you want to do the difficulty adhere to the rules. It’s that simple.
If you want to raid mythic you have two options.
Stay in the current guild and recruit
Or join a new guild.
Asking for special treatment because you can’t make a decision is a joke.
But I like m+ so this is a horrible idea. Bet you hadn’t considered that…
its been said a thousand times if you want more people in mythic just remove the lockout
And has been said everytime.
The lockout is there for a reason.
There’s lots of easy things they could do to increase participation. Clearly there are good reasons they aren’t simply doing them.
It’s like people think that as soon as the lockout is removed they can pug CE.
Again, you kill your own argument by projecting someone else’s motivation. It’s not just about being unable to make a decision, it’s that both of the decisions suck for many players.
We can agree to disagree at this point since I doubt either one of us is going to convince the other of our view points. I just wish you’d not try to make your points without assuming the other person’s motivation you can’t possibly know.
My argument isn’t killed. You just don’t like the facts.
The progression is there. If you chose not to do it then that is on you.
I’m not assuming anything. I am telling you the facts. You just don’t like hearing them.
I am curious what you think I am assuming.
to prevent me from playing the game?
You realize you are doing it again here, right? You assume the reason I said you are killing your argument is because I can’t refute your facts; you can’t possibly know what my reason was.
With that said, I actually didn’t even refute your facts. Yes, the two choices for someone who wants to try mythic raid are find a mythic raiding group or recruit/manage a roster to be able to run mythic. Not once did I say otherwise.
What I said is that those options are pretty miserable for a game that is designed to be social. You don’t think other options should exist, which is fine, even if I disagree. But your claim that anyone who elects not to make either choice is unable to make a decision is just wrong.
You are assuming that players who choose inaction as opposed to 2 bad options are doing so out of indecision. You wrote that yourself.