An explanation of the Level Squish with Behavioral Science

Community General Discussion
84

To answer your question I’ll need to explain the various reinforcement schedules. Each reinforcement schedule has it’s own strengths and weaknesses. The denser the reinforcement schedule, the quicker a behavior builds but the quicker the behavior goes away when it’s no longer reinforced. The thinner the schedule, the slower a behavior builds but the longer the behavior continues when it’s no longer reinforced.

So a Fixed Ratio 1 (FR1) reinforcement schedule is when you get something every time you perform an action. This type of reinforcement schedule is amazing when you’re first teaching a behavior for obvious reasons. However, it’s bad for when you’re trying to maintain a behavior over time. Compare that to a Variable Ratio 10 (VR10) when your behavior is reinforced on an average of every ten responses but that can range anywhere from after 1 response to 20 responses leads to unpredictability. This type of schedule is bad for building a new behavior but amazing for maintaining a behavior (e.g. it’s essentially like pulling a slot machine).

Typically, when teaching someone a new behavior we start with that FR1 schedule of reinforcement and gradually change it over time to and FR2 then a VR 3, then a VR 5 and so on and so forth until it mimics the natural environment.

Blizzard has a jumbled mess of their current reinforcement schedule and the effects of it aren’t really explained by a lot of research. There’s obviously an attempt at a dense reinforcement schedule since we’re getting epics for anything but I think the question is are these purples raining from the sky actually reinforcers if they aren’t upgrades? So Blizz might think they have a really dense FR1 schedule but given how often we actually get an upgrade, it’s more like a high VR schedule.

The other question is of personal loot and how that’s effected the reinforcement schedule for raiders and dungeon players. Prior to personal loot, it was hard to say what the actual reinforcement schedule was… did the individual find it reinforcing just to see loot drop? Was it reinforcing to see a guildmate or friend get an upgrade? If so, then we’re more or less on an FR1 schedule. Switching to personal loot immediately jumped us to a VR5 schedule and our guildmates/friends are also on their own individual VR5 schedule so overall it seems like there are less reinforcers even though Blizz claims mathematically it’s supposed to be the same. From an anecdotal point of view, personal loot just doesn’t feel good for me. I used to get excited at the anticipation of looting a boss after the kill and that feeling itself was a reinforcer for me. Now, I dread when a boss dies because I know there’s an 80% chance I just get gold. I don’t even get the joy of opening up the boss to see what treasure he has.

Finally, the removal of tokens. Tokens offered us a predictable FR1 reinforcer while being supplemented by the Dungeons VR loot table drops. By removing tokens and focusing only on RNG Dungeon drops, Blizz created that feeling that everything is RNG based. It’s always better to have overlapping schedules of reinforcement than a single schedule.

So to summarize: Blizzard’s reinforcement schedules are a mess but it would make for a good research paper.

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85

You should do it.

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86

The ding isn’t reinforcing and it hasn’t been for a while. Back in Classic, a ding was a great achievement (only 60 levels btw) and now it is not.

I’m also an expert in behavioral science btw

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87

You want me to guarantee it?

/me scribbles down a contract.

If blizzard delivers quality, engaging, new, and innovative content as alternatives to the traditional levelling experience:
I will personally go on a recruiting jihad to bring friends back to WoW. If neither my efforts nor blizzard’s efforts are sufficient to negate or reverse the exodus of subscriptions, I’ll happily pay a reasonable personal fine of up to one person’s annual subscription.

There. It’s technically “guaranteed”.

And a totally safe bet on my part because they won’t even consider making the effort.

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88

lol, I think we need a definition section to specify exactly what quality, engaging, new and innovative content is to make that even close to a guarantee.

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89

Fair enough.

Can we at least agree that a quest to poke through animal droppings for some invisible quest mcguffin, again, doesn’t fit any of those descriptions. :wink:

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90

Lol nah, PhD gets paid less in my field than Master’s. I also doubt Blizz would ever let anyone look at their numbers.

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91

Me too! But seriously I’m the only person in my family without one. I’m embarrassed.

But, I think, even a short-partial paper, would go along way to helping blizzard and their base understand their problems. I think you are no stranger to how when we as people don’t have the words to describe how we feel, we make how we feel about the words we have for what we can describe. Most people rely on heuristics without ever realizing it and codify their experiences with what they know best. Both players and game designers are beating each other up because they don’t know how to describe their problems. People on the forums are beating each other up because they’re accessible.

92

I read the entire OP and agree completely. A level squish is pointless.

This part I find especially relevant:

Instead of a squish, provide more rewards. A prize cache for each level would be good (or at least the levels that don’t award a skill or talent). It can have gold and maybe some consumables. Milestone levels could have additional rewards like a piece of gear, a toy, pet, maybe even a mount.

Personally, I’m the type pf player that’s happy with a “ding” and a higher number by my name. I’ll be extremely unhappy if my numbers are suddenly lowered. I’ve earned each and every one of my levels. A squish will make me feel like Blizz has taken away the last thing I enjoyed about this game. I’ll have no more reason to play.

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93

As I said in the other topic, it seems quite cynical to think they’ll only be slashing levels and calling it a day. But I do hope they read this before they have a “hold my beer” moment and strip mine the ground from under my already low expectations.

Very well written.

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94

What I don’t understand is why people would settle for less…By accepting the proposed stat squish in exchange for a smaller level to progress towards because It looks easier is not a logical or acceptable reward for me. It should not be for anyone. instead you should ask for more and by more I mean bring talent trees back and add new talents. level squish and stat squishes are band aids for lack of content being added because they rush out this new content and scrape up money and laugh all the way to the bank. This expansion by far has been more boring than warlords was and definitely has felt less rewarding than legion. So why are people willing to settle for less when they should be demanding new talents for levels. Honestly they have been taking in that money and haven’t really added any real content besides a class and a few races since cata. unless you count allied races which I don’t because they are just lazy reskins for the most part

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95

Now if you did a level squish, reduced time played and increased skills and talents… I’m confident a quick component analysis will show you that the level squish actually did nothing and it was the reduced time played and increased rewards that increased our enjoyment with the game. So yes, a level squish is essentially pointless.

Thank you! I am incredibly against the level squish. Full stop.

They should just reduce XP required to level. I’m not going to be fooled. I don’t currently mind the level distance between abilities, the issue is how long and draining it is to hit 120 and I would guess for a lot of players who complain about the abilities it’s not going to feel that much less frustrating if they’re still spending the same amount of time. The numbers themselves are not any more daunting than level 80 was. It’s just the time that drags on and on and on before getting there for us veteran players who just want a new race or class and have seen the game. You’re seriously exhausting a lot of us who have lives, but still want to play. The hardcore era is gone and it’s probably not coming back, not for your core userbase, not for people like me who’ve stuck with you with a constant sub for 10 years and who buy all your store stuff and so on.

It likely will be implemented in such a way as to not really solve any of the issues and I really, really dislike having my levels taken from me (I cannot express how frustrating the idea is here but it certainly would drive me to want to spew profanity). Consider also the issues it would introduce. Blizzard has been doing a lot of things that I really don’t like lately, I am still sore over the portal removal which was in effect the addition of a time sink to the game. I am skeptical of the new mount system with slots because it seems again like another gimmick designed to eat up time and maybe gold and give us very little new, and what it does is create problems to then offer solutions for.

I would most likely cancel my sub if Blizzard was foolish enough to not only take my hard earned levels from me, but also not do a thing to make my leveling time significantly shorter. (My levels mean something, the characters I’ve had since BC have meaning, at 70 I was doing BC content, heroic dungeons, a few raids, at 80 in WOTLK I was doing a lot of raiding and I have fond memories of it, at 85 I remember the amount of time I spent in Tol Barad, at 90 I remember all the time I spent exploring Pandaria alongside all the raiding, and so on.) The point is for a lot of people our character levels have meaning and memories, they are a sign of power and each level earned but also more. I can’t even imagine how frustrating it would be for returning players to leave with 10 level 100s or whatever and come back later to find a bunch of squished characters. Psychologically you’re going to feel robbed the same as if I took your car speedometer and changed the numbers by cutting every value in half, you may very well be going along the 405 at 40mph but if the needle points at 20 you’re going to tend to groan anyways.

As to the issues:

  • Currently first mount is available at level 20. Would all level 20 characters being squished to 10 loose the ability to use mounts? That’s unacceptable.

  • Trial accounts and accounts with expired time can only play up to level 20 characters, would that number be squished down to 10 and would these accounts then be unable to use mounts among other things due to the inability to reach that level?

  • Same thing with flying. Currently available at 60. Would level 30 characters be able to buy flying and use it?

  • It would require significant work for the appearances tab to squish levels for those appropriately.

Here’s another idea I saw somewhere that I thought was quite good:

Instead of squishing levels. Offer a perk to existing/veteran players that allows them to start a new character at level 60 or level 1 (so they can choose whether they want to take the long road or not). This will address issues of leveling taking so long while leaving the hard road open. By making it something players earn by say leveling or having at least two 120s or maybe loremaster or something it also ensures new players take the time to experience the game world. Or just open it up to everyone. I don’t really care that much, I just don’t want my levels squished but I would like something done about how long it takes to level a new character even for those veterans who have all heirlooms.

It does sound from the survey like the decision has been made but I’m hoping enough people make enough noise to change your mind because it sounds like you’re fishing for a reaction here and I think a lot of the community that is tacitly supporting this doesn’t understand that the current proposal is not in any way lowering the amount of time it takes so you’re not getting an honest assessment here. They just hear the good part about getting more abilities and think that means more abilities more quickly during leveling which from my understanding of the proposal is not the case.

-Signed a tired, wary, but loyal customer and fan who is increasingly disenchanted.

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96

Pretty sure that’s why everyone is heading for the exits…or Classic. It’s not acceptable.

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97

Did you really say that with a straight face? They DGAF about ‘time played’, They do care about subs tho.

For the bean counters, the perfect customer is the one who pays every month and never logs on.

98

Enhh… do they really?

While I’m sure that Blizzard is happy with burnouts who forget to unsub. But for every 5 of those, they’d probably prefer to have one person regularly shopping in their store for tokens, pets, mounts, services and boosts.

Two boosts alone costs more than a full year subscription. It’s no wonder they’re so giddy about allied races.

99

This is the internet. Everything is not as it seems.

100

Damn right it was, and it was awesome. But, the game wasnt always focused on the endgame. Leveling wasnt just a trivial chore. The fact that you were playing and having fun while you were playing, building your character, was a huge part of the game. Doing these quests were the same thing as gaining talent points and abilities. In the end, those are all about progressing your character, and doing a weapon quest would greatly increase your characters power for a long time.

101

Sorry if this may be off topic, but i feel it is somewhat relevant. With a level squish, possible revamp to leveling, and classic being fully available to blizz. Do you think it would be possible to change the time period of the zones you are leveling in, say like you can change Arathi or Darkshore? Every classic zone has either a Bronze dragon npc to talk to or even in an inn you can toggle it? Just a thought

102

I will definitely try Classic. I will, however, miss all of the QoL in current wow, such as xmog

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103

How are having new talents or abilities going to make things feel better though when the end result is the same - no gain in power ?

I am surprised I haven’t noticed anyone say though - blizzard said they WERE going to do this anyway. That’s all they need to do for the people who think it will make things better, no lvl squish is even needed.