Saying that doesn’t make it true. As someone else pointed out…if the stars align and a premade in full tier gear pull it off in a very low percentage in 1.5. Is that somehow equal to pugs in trash gear being able to zerg down the General in nearly every 1.12 AV? You act like these changes had a minimal impact, which is absurd.
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Ya, they can be zerged. The likelihood of that drops off tremendously the further you go back in the av design timeline though.
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I don’t know why you keep repeating this, its not true. Trying to zerg 1.5 would lead to a massacre. Ignoring the mines altogether, guards would charge/stun/dismount you, the towers would decimate clothies and leather wearers when running by. In order to even possibly be successful it would have to be a premade with at least bwl gear. Add in even a token resistance force of 5 people defending and you’d fail basically guaranteed.
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Absurd and it negates the argument for the later AV version.
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I’m rereading the OP, and this just bothers me so much. That they consider these changes improvements breaks my heart. It’s like they take the original intention of two factions going at each other, and just make them background noise.
If they don’t have the original data and/or don’t have the time or resources to recreate the original version…fine, whatever. But to deliberately say the older version was worse because NPCs were too hard, or too integral is infuriating. It stinks of design philosophy that wafts through BfA.
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If premades can zerg AV 1.5 pugs can be taught to zerg 1.5. If 1.5 can be zerged, As many pointed out in other threads, players this day in age will take “the path of least resistance.”
I’m sick of this argument. It’s downright absurd and lacks common sense.
Pre 1.12 is harder to zerg and greatly, greatly, GREATLY discourages it by making it incredibly hard. Post 1.12 makes it a ton easier. I don’t care if you “”"""""“can”"""""""""""" zerg it, when one version makes it a buttload easier than the other version, that’s all that matters.
Stop with the mental gymnastic attention seeking troll bait, thanks.
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Sharding - I agree, but I disagree regarding cross-realm bg’s. First of all, it’s part of 1.12, and therefore falls in line with the #nochanges philosophy. Second of all (and this part is my personal opinion), I don’t think cross-realm BGs destroy the community aspect. BGs are an instanced event that takes part outside of the actual server - granted, so are dungeons and raids, but dungeons and raids you have to MANUALLY get a group together for - that’s not the case for BGs, which makes them an automated matchmaking system and in a system like that, cross-realm is fine.
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To me it being a zergfest or not isnt the only issue. I wanted to see AV In all its glory. Before they took parts away and rearranged the map. I also think one of the most appealing parts of classic is the challenge. There’s no way 1.12 is as equal a challenge as the original. I think a lot of the people complaining that they want 1.12 are hardcore title chasers, pserver types or trolls. The only reason to like that version of av is to be able to spam bgs and get as much honor as fast as possible. Those types dont care if it’s fun or not. For them the fun is getting the gear and titles. It seems that for a lot of us the fun was the struggle the back and forth. I would think that type of player is in the minority just like hardcore raiders aren’t the norm.
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Burn the messenger at the stake! ![:fire:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/fire.png?v=6" ":fire:")
I’m actually not opposed to this version of AV. People need to seriously realize there not going to get every item checked off their list.
People are mainly fine with this change from what I’ve seen from my own guild. Only a small minority of vocal players are upset. 1.12 AV is fine and makes the most sense.
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Just because you don’t like the argument doesn’t make it invalid. If both versions can be zerged, one being easier is not a valid argument against the easier version. All people have to do is learn how to zerg the harder version and then everyone zergs the harder version because it’s easier and faster then fighting and doing the rest of the BG.
You can call it troll bait all you want, but if as some people in the forums claim, the mindset is “path of least resistance” and “zerging” and both versions can be zerged, doesn’t matter how hard or easy 1 is to zerg, that’s what people will do.
Now if you want to make the argument 1.5 if fundamentally better than 1.12, that’s something to make an argument on. But if you’re worried about players zerging 1.12, they can zerg 1.5 too. It’s not a fault of either version, it’s a player mindset. You can have long epic battles on 1.12 if you get people to not zerg.
I’m kind of surprised at the responses in this thread. Blizzard announced that they will roll with 1.12 since the Dev Watercooler - did any of you think that they would have followed that up with “oh yeah, but not AV, we will do a 1.8 AV”?
I would have LOVED to play WoW from 1.1 through 1.12, especially since I didn’t actually start until 1.12 so I have no idea what earlier patches were like, but private servers (which, lets be honest, are the reason Classic is even happening) all did 1.12, and countless people played those servers without complaints that certain aspects weren’t 1.8 instead. Blizzard saw what the crowd wanted based on private servers and are now offering us a polished version of what the private servers offered us. As much as I would love for them to do a 1.1 through 1.12, I understand that would require too much work and am honestly grateful to at least have an official 1.12.
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Are you trying to make sense?
Vanilla design changes = BfA changes.
![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
The original designers changed AV rather quickly, why don’t you go tell them they had a BfA design philosophy?
Just in case Blizzard is listening I want to say I would like an earlier version of this what was once a epic bg.
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- Claims doesn’t matter what version it is as would be zergged anyway
- Pushes back against those who prefer the older versions that included vastly more content
- Claims only giving opinion and totally not being an attention seeking troll
Tell us more about your BFA guild’s opinion on aspects of classic.
In related new, reports confirm that General Discussion posters overwhelmingly prefer AV 1.12 if not later versions.
Following sports, a special edition of “what do Overwatch players think?”
That is some hard hitting insight.
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Thanks for the updates !
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Blizzard, please reconsider your stance on AV. 1.12 AV is not in the spirit of vanilla, it is a race to the end boss with minimal PVP.
Since you are doing a timed release of content, that gives you more than enough to deliver a better AV.
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Never said a bad word or pushed back against people who want 1.5 because they want 1.5.
Only ever pushed back against people who said 1.5 was better then 1.12 because 1.12 is only a zergfest. That people would only ever zerg 1.12 because “that’s the mindset” and people “will go with the path of least resistance.” 1.5 can be zerged, even if it is a bit harder and takes a bit longer, it can still be zerged. So if players are just going to go “with the path of least resistance”, 1.12 being able to be zerged is not an argument for 1.5 because 1.5 can be zerged.
Now if you want to say 1.5 is just a better experience then 1.12 that’s a valid argument. I’ve seen everything people have said, it’s an intriguing prospect and I’m not against 1.5 for 1.5, but 1.12 is bad because “zerg” is not a valid argument.