Alterac Valley in Classic

You are just cherry picking statements to suit yourself. You know what else was said at Blizzcon: “You think you do, but you don’t”.

The whole reason we are here is because people wouldn’t settle for this dismissive nonsense that was foisted upon us by people who didn’t know diddley squat about vanilla.

Ion’s vision of what WoW is bears almost no resemblance to Vanilla WoW. It is why he needs to move away from making statements about the game and leave that to the people who are acually, actively developing it.

This is why people have been so on board with other statements they have made, and why they have garnered so much respect for making them. The announcement of this version of AV is the first misstep they have made, and the way in which it was made really caused a bit of a stutter in a lot of people’s confidence - not because it means we aren’t getting what we want, but because it denoted that maybe the developers really didn’t understand what so many of us, that have been fighting for years for this opportunity, found so magical and compelling about vanilla WoW.

It has been stated by multiple other posters, but I will reiterate here again: if they don’t have the data for 1.5-1.8 AV then tell us that. We will be disappointed and move on.

If they do have that data and have chosen not to use it because they want everything to be 1.12 then this is a large miscalculation on their part in the eyes of many fans of the whole idea of Classic.

Those of us fighting for an earlier version are doing so because we believe it is for the betterment of the entire game, to make Classic a more authentic and better representation of what vanilla was. We aren’t doing this because “it is the version I played and so I want to play what I played in 2006”.

Many of us played all versions, and many of feel that the earlier iterations were much better. You can see why they were complained about (people complain about everything), but if people playing 1.5 AV had 1.12 talents and gear, there would have been almost no complaints (there would have been some, because you know, people complain about everything - there are complaints in the general forum that levelling in BfA is too hard, and that it is too difficult to get gear!).

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One thing I do not believe I have gotten a clear answer on and I have asked before because people just dismiss the question…

Let’s say they have 1.5 data or they try to recreate that version of AV. Since they’re going for a recreation here. Would you accept this timeline?

Phase 1: No AV
Phase 2: 1.5
Phase 3 1.7
Phase 4. 1.8
Phase 5 1.10
Phase 6 1.12

So if phases last three months. Av would progressively change like it originally did. While this seems like a massive amount of work for one batttleground (one reason why I think they’re not doing it. It’s a lot of work to go in and try to figure out exact data especially if they don’t have it or if they can’t access it.)

Would you accept that? As others have said. It would still lead us to the AV you guys don’t want. But for the first three months. You’d have your AV and it would be a fair and accurate representation of change in Vanilla.

I fully believe one of the reason they’re trying for a static patch with one version is because they don’t want to change things. That confuses players. It would make players upset halfway. And they don’t want that.

But to the question above. Would you accept that previous timeline of changing AV throughout Classic?

The fact that you are asking that question indicates, to me, that you haven’t absorbed a single argument that has occurred in this thread or paid any note to the viewpoints of the people who are asking for an earlier, more epic version of AV.

And to simply answer your question: NO.

I don’t want Blizzard progressing content and making changes over the course of Classic (I’ll revisit that stance 6 months after the final phase of content is released). They don’t want to do that for clear and well-grounded reasons, and I don’t think players want that.

I want a recreation, a static one, where talents and skills and the world doesn’t change every few months. I get releasing content in phases (might have been unnecessary but it makes sense and fits). Adding content over time is fine.

What you are proposing is the removal of game content. Why would we want this?

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I have absorbed what you guys are saying. You want 1.5 AV. You want to relive those epic memories you had.

But this project is trying to faithfully recreate vanilla through unlocking content through a timeline similar to vanilla. And with the phases they’re trying to gradually release content as it was.

Would it it make sense to start at the early version of AV and then progressively make it into the final version. That’d be an accurate representation of what happened.

But it seems you don’t want that. If you don’t want that what is the difference between you and someone arguing for static 1.5 talent trees? I’d argue nothing. You both want the version you want to stay in game forever without acknowledging the changes that happened in Vanilla.

I think gradually changing AV would be a nice compromise so you could experience what you want and experience the change that happened, for better or worse. Since that is literally the most accurate thing they could do…

And if you think that, then all is lost.

Have a good one.

So because I don’t agree with you all is lost?

Why is getting a full accurate representation of Vanilla World of Warcraft a bad thing? Isn’t that what people wanted?

If Blizzard came out and said they were doing progressive AV, would you guys still be here arguing against that, despite it being the most accurate thing they could have done?

I’m trying to figure out your red line in the sand that if Blizzard crosses, you won’t play. Because I want everyone to play. But I also want it to be accurate.

I’ve seen several folks offer up 1.8 as a compromise. What if we started with that?

Right now we’re at 1.12 - 1.12 for Classic.

If we can get to X - 1.12 then that would be beneficial to you guys who are arguing against me.

Then just maybe, when they flip the switch to the older version, people will dislike it Blizzard will decide to keep the one of the older versions.

As I think Prufinnor has stated, I haven’t played the older version. So I can’t argue against it. And I haven’t been arguing against it. Never said it was bad. I’d prefer if they started with it and then progressed.

If a majority of people like the older version maybe they’ll stick with the older version.

But right now I think it would be best to do X - 1.12, if Blizzard can do it. If not, then well, we’re stuck with 1.12 because that’s what they have.

Also really surprised none of you have used the Epic Battlegrounds argument. Incase you aren’t aware… Blizzard actually buffed Alterac Valley a few months ago on live.

Here is the thread. Unsure why no one is throwing this in their faces, to show that the current live time is trying to go back to a time AV was harder. When that exact time is, I’m unsure.

I don’t think many people here read other forum sections than this because they can’t post elsewhere anyway :smiley:

I for one don’t have any idea what is going on in retail.

Because it is a horribly flawed question. Also people are sick of your arguing against something which you’ve no experience with.

That as well.

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In my latest post I wasn’t arguing against 1.5 AV. I was saying try to recreate it. I was compromising with you, but then just cycle through like actual Vanilla. That seems like a fair compromise.

But I guess it’s either your way or the highway it seems. That isn’t a discussion. That’s a demand.

Blizzard seems to work well with compromises with the community like they did with loot trading and the content phases. Not flat out demands.

I care nothing about a position that leads to a perpetual neutered experience, nor am I interested in compromising with someone with zero experience of the subject matter. Your attempt at equating content rollout to literal content removal is absurd. Dooming the BG to a known history of crippling change is something you should pat yourself on the back about. It is pure ignorance.

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I demand 1.5 AV, there is no middle way…

The real question on everyone’s mind is can you fish in AV with version 1.12? It was a bonding experience at times even with the opposing faction.

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I could be happy with a progressive AV. I could be happy with any version 1.5 - 1.8 AV. But I feel that just using 1.12 AV is a mistake. Using only 1.12 AV removes a bunch of NPC’s that only existed in previous versions of AV. Those NPC’s drastically change the way teams have to play. Those NPC’s force teams to play as a team and greatly reduce the chances for teams to rush to the end for a fast win!

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AV 1.12 is a terrible decision, please reconsider.

Even the EU agrees.
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/alterac-valley-in-classic/37036

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The match will be over by the time you catch something.

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Boo. :ghost:
Original AV please.

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Well 1.12 is probably the worst decision, usually it ended before you could do the quests to summon reinforcements to help you push to enemy stronghold.

It was also very disgusting to see ally faction pulling drek by himself out of his strong hold and killing him on the hill.

Well av had a downword spiral of nerfs through out wow.

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I dont get why you are getting dumped on so hard. I understand what you’re saying, and it is a nice idea. After all, we are going for recapturing that classic feel, and progressing AV would be true to the source material.

The problem isn’t that you’re wrong on that front. The real problem is that the AV nerfs have been a point of contention since they were done. People want to experience AV as it was for the majority of wow. Most folks have not been able to play old AV, me included. It’s a part of WoW history.

As far as wanting it for the entirety of Classic, rather than phasing it forward through iterations, you might argue that it goes against “nochanges,” and is therefore hypocritical. Remember, however, that these folks are not voicing new opinions. People have railed against AV nerfs since the beginning. That might honestly be more in line with “nochanges” than 1.12. If it’s possible to experience AV as it was, it would be a sight to see.

Old AV seems more in line with Classic ideology than 1.12, from what I’ve read. I think that’s why folks are so vehement about it.

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I played AV from day one and agree 100% that starting the game from 1.12 is to far in.

Maybe the original version wasn’t ideal but at least it gave people that liked to do side quests to help the overall battle have something to do before diving headfirst into a fight.

It would be a sad day indeed if Classic AV doesn’t have Korrak and all assocated road blocks that forced the entire raid groups to act as a full team to achieve “pushes” to take small choke points like graveyards or towers.

An example being releasing Commandoes or Griffons or even both at the same time on an area and pushing the opposing team back at the same time they attack to help force an enemies retreat.

Those are the little hard fought victories that mad AV great as it was full on team work not just rush rush rush tank and spank…but who knows maybe that was just me and what I enjoyed. Just my 2cents as to what made and EPIC battle ground EPIC :smiley: even if the battle took a day or 3 you knew how or why you won and it was great!

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Why lie though? 1.12 is just convenient to blizz.

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