It seems to me that the additional 5 seconds for pillar of frost to scale our STR bonus will lead to an absurdly high bonus.
It is my view that this bonus is the reason that our base abilities need to be tuned so low at baseline so that when PoF is fully scaled they wont be hitting for ridiculous values.
I recommend capping the scaling on PoF. It will make the spec easier to balance allow for higher tuning of base ability damage and make the gap between players who can maximize the scaling and those who cant much smaller.
If by chance this reaches the Devs ears Id also like to say, good job the frost changes look good.
Or just remove the strength scaling all together and replace with something else. I wanna be able to use abilities like Frostwyrm’s Fury freely during Pillar, not waiting until the last second for maximum damage.
Also with more damage at the end of pillar, it can start to feel bad when enemies die too quick before you to reach full potential.
I would prefer it be removed as well but having it cap would also allow you to use Frostwyrm without timing the last possible second.
Also the new Frostscythe will likely have the same issue and make it so you have to time the last second of ever PoF window as well as the last two seconds when Frostwyrm and Frostscythe are up.
I’ve never been a big Frost player, but have decided to give it a whirl for season 4.
The cooldown reduction for Pillar of Frost is not fun, especially when it gets desync’d from trinkets etc because of downtime in actual fighting. The strength scaling definitely feels like it actually holds the spec from performing adequately without cooldowns up. This is even more evident in PvP where I feel like I have no damage when there are no cooldowns available. Frost DKs actually running away from combat when cooldowns aren’t available is completely against how they are portrayed in the lore ie Unrelenting killing machines.
Pillar is part of the reason frost has been out of whack for a bit now (along with other issues). How is fixing pillar so the the rest of the kit can be tuned to do damage without it a bad thing or “ruining” specs?
You might not like it, but frost dk is actually performing quite nicely, especially in m+.
Everytime they listen to ideas of players that put balance above gameplay, the result is disaster. Thankfully it doesn’t seem like they are listening to this kind of feedback this time. Otherwise they would have likely removed icecap already, and thank god they aren’t.
You guys are boring, it’s no surprise that the result of your ideas also is.
Warlock has been destroyed thanks to ideas such as these. We don’t need to add more specs to the mix.
The frost dk changes are great, at most cap the strength modifier, and that’s it.
All i see when i read points like this is ultimately, “i do not like cdr gameplay as such i will find an excuse to make my argument more believable when ultimately it really is just a subjective issue”.
Your take is pretty poor. UH, They changed dark transform for a set 45 cd instead of how it used to be for cdr. It is far better off (excluding the other spec issues in general) because of that change. Now Army is a fixed 3min cd.
Why would you want all your power baked into cd windows? That very idea is what has been holding back balancing for a while now.
Make an argument for why its current cdr playstyle is a good thing compared to simply making it a fixed cd so the rest of the spec can be tuned for damage when it isn’t up.
When it comes to what i enjoy about gameplay, what argument is there to be made exactly? Maybe frost is just not for you, this is clearly the direction it’s going, ill throw you a bone, make a choice node with ice cap. There you go.
As for 45 seconds dark transformation fixed cd, that’s like completely subjective.
Grand warlock design has been ruined, especially for destruction warlock due to the same change.
Ultimately you’re the same, you try to find an argument to say why this is objectively bad, and say things like trinkets and other cds, and mechanics etc, but ultimately you only see one part of it, and refuse to see the other, what about when cdr allows you to perfectly align those things instead? And you have cds ready everytime you need it. Cherry picking much?
Ultimately this type of gameplay is more enjoyable. Sucks for you i guess.
This entire take is subjective. Still, you never once made an argument for the kit being balanced better to do damage without pillar up.
Bro what are you even talking about? Fixed pillar would make the spec so much easier to balance since it wouldn’t require so much damage to be done during those windows. So your sustain goes up. Like, what are you even talking about with cherry picking ect.
It sounds like you are a little salty I think your take is bad.
I do think a choice node would be a cool idea though since it gives more choice.
I disagree with that type of gameplay is more enjoyable when it could be balanced better without cdr. But each their own I suppose.
The CDR of PoF is one thing, but the ramping strength modifier while its up is another.
Personally, I could take or leave the CDR. On one hand, a higher uptime on PoF leads to the kit having to be detuned while its not up and the inconsistent cooldown makes it hard to line up with other things. On the other hand, many people like having more frequent access to their go buttons.
The ramping strength modifier is what I really don’t like about it. It forces you to sit on your best abilities to right at the end of Pillar instead of being able to use them when you want or when it makes the most sense. I would much prefer PoF the be a flat % strength modifier with no ramping.
Giga CD becomes giga-er. Super easy to balance around…/s
They need to just make it a flat % throughput increase and keep ramp damage out of every facet of the spec. RW ramps, pillar ramps, icy talons ramps, razor ice ramps… 1-2 ramping abilities is fine, but if you desync your ramps (which will never work with passive trinkets mind you - so we will move more towards favoring on use trinkets for go windows) the spec is going to feel awful imo. Not to mention in between we’ll feel like garbage still.
Avenging wrath, beastial wrath, colossus smash, etc are all just flat damage modifiers for a go window. I’m 20-30% more effective in my go window on other classes. On frost dk imma be 5-100% more effective? How is that fun for whatever poor soul I’m about to smash into oblivion when the stars line up?
Zero way to reasonably track all this on the base UI too. I honestly can’t even think of another class that is this cumbersome to play in another mmo off the top of my head.
What wrong with having RW be our only build damage in the spec, and pillar offer us a base throughput increase. Then balance around that.
It’s not just FWF at the end of the pillar window. It’s make sure frost scythe is up for the second to last CD, make sure frost wyrm is that last tick, make sure the RW build is peaking at the end of the str modifier from pillar, it’s pop a crit/haste trinket at a specific point in the go window to get maximum benefit for the duration of the trinket effect, etc etc. the whole window becomes very rigid and scripted, even before you enter into it because you’re sandbagging cooldowns for the end of the window and popping some at the start and some in the middle. Potion on the go window start may not even be correct now?
This is going to push me away from the spec again. These aren’t fixes.
I’m not salty about anything, ultimately the argument is about gameplay.
Your idea of good gameplay sounds like absolute trash to me.
And so, no thanks, i think the direction they are going right now is far better than what you’re suggesting.
I noticed something, when someone values balance over gameplay, their ideas are almost always terrible. If you’re a developer, and you’re more worried about making something “easy to balance” rather than actually fun to play with, you already failed at your job. And so i’m pretty glad that they are seemingly not listening to this kind of feedback too much. Because when they did, the changes were always terrible for gameplay.
Considering the current balance feels awful when pillar is down, I’d take the better balance any day. I never understood why people like the gameplay of all the damage being done in cd windows rather than having good sustain and fun burst overall.
