Alpha Fury - 11/6/25 Update - Good Progress!

Classes Warrior
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Everything feels much better today with the re-arrangements and pathing changes. A few concerns still.

Recklessness

So we’ve lost the torments, we lost depths of insanity, we lost unbridled ferocity, the rage generation was nerfed. We lost some cooldowns that we usually paired with Recklessness. Even before we lost all of these things we still had one of the weakest cooldown windows in the entire game in TWW.

I don’t need Fury to be some super burst class, but especially with how much less often I’ll have Recklessness it needs to at least feel somewhat satisfying to press the dang button.

A secondary, but not minor, concern is the cooldown reductions spread across Bladestorm, Odyn Fury (tier bonus), and Recklessness seem to mismatch all over the place. That never feels good.

Rampaging Berserker

Please change this lol. We are already the spec that is most heavily punished by downtime, we don’t need to triple down on that with this apex talent design.

Rage Economy

I don’t have access myself yet, but seeing some graphs posted with Rampage coming in around every 6 gcds when not in Recklessness feels too “slow” for me. With all the nerfs to Recklessness uptime and loss of bonuses and effects that currently prop up rage generation as well I think we need to see this buffed so that we’re using Rampage every 4ish gcds outside of Recklessness.

Reckless Abandon

Still lacks any kind of synergy with most of the Fury kit. Odyn’s Fury, Bladestorm, Thunderblast, Execute, and Rampage - all primary fury abilities - receive zero benefit from this talent. I don’t understand.

Everything is Raging Blow or Bloodthirst

This is just a general complaint, but soooooooo many of our talents do nothing but change the damage of these two abilities. This is a very bland approach when Fury has so many other abilities that can matter and be fun to press like I mentioned above about Reck Abandon.

The spec is more than these two abilities, please let our talent tree reflect that so it’s more exciting and interesting.

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I’ll be honest while torments did help make it a little stronger it didn’t really add much to the gameplay at all. They’re not exactly something I’ll miss personally. UF was also in a pretty weakened state ever since it’s massive nerf going into TWW it finally being removed is for the better especially with how RNG would’ve had it effect Fury’s apex talent pull to pull.

Avatar being a choice node against Bladestorm is fine in my opinion, it doesn’t bring much variation to the gameplay at all as it CDRs at the same time as Recklessness anyway so it’s just a macro to combine them together to be active on the same press.

I don’t necessarily mind this personally, rampage being available too often is detrimental to fury’s core gameplay loop as it will reduce the impact on the rotation that Recklessness will provide with it’s apex talent augments and make those moments feel more impactful.

Yeah I’m not too keen on this variation of RA either, I get what it’s trying to do with putting more importance on BT/RB during those Reck windows but it seems to be the opposite of what the Apex talents are leaning into. This would be much better off being adjusted to an additional effect on your rampage casts.

This is a general problem across most Spec talent trees these days. It’s not really something unique to warriors only. When they have a limited amount of rotational abilities and require a certain quota of talents to fill out passives.
I think the biggest problem here regarding the fury tree is how many points are in the first rung in total, they need to reduce this down to start more like the Arms/SV tree does so you can take most of the opening gate points and allow for more diverse talents to then fill out rung 3 rather than having such a high amount of talents with only 8 points to spend on them.

As it stand right now there’s almost no point of pathing through to Focus in Chaos in any fury build due to AA boosting talents requiring RB resets to function and you’re better off picking up other options instead to boost the direct damage of abilities instead leaving this pathing pretty dead in the water.

Improved Raging Blow could easily be merged into base raging blow, there’s no reason it should be bloating talent point options in the first rung of the tree.

Kill or Be Killed is also in an extremely silly position too where it’s never going to be picked up over throughput options for PvE and would be much better relegated as a choice node in the first rung of the tree against something like Warpaint since Invigorating Fury doesn’t really have many use cases at all.

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I don’t care about the torments either, but the dramatic decrease in Recklessness uptime needs to be accounted for somehow IMO. As of today, we have an even worse cooldown than before with even less uptime. Reck Abandon and the Apex Talents aren’t currently helping this either.

I have mixed feelings on UF, but I do think Fury needs something to spice things up occasionally. Give us something to react to. For all it’s failures, at least you feel Recklessness instantly impact your rotation through the rage gain. It doesn’t have to be UF, but the spec needs something IMO.

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Agreed, but that’s mostly a tuning issue for the most part as it seems the Apex talents are trying to make up for that.

The fact that Recklessness has stayed so weak for so long is directly tied to how long you’re able to keep it active for. This restricted uptime compared to live allows for more to be done balance wise and enable more power to be shifted into the cooldown itself. I’ll be real if your cooldown is up all the time it severely devalues it as a moment of power.

The Apex talents for fury definitely punish downtime, but it does it’s job in making that Recklessness duration more important.
Recklessness still has a pretty low CD when you account for AM so even if you get stooged by mechanics during your rampage you’re going to get that next one back pretty fast compared to other specs cooldowns where they’re on a flat 2/3min cadence and lose even more for having their CD window interrupted.

I don’t think Fury’s moving away at all from it’s steady sustained damage profile with a couple of ‘burst’ cooldowns added into the mix that it’s had relative to more RNG prone specs, which is both a blessing and a curse for it depending how you look at it.

Both hero talents have SD procs and Raging Blow resets to react to.
Thane has Burst of Power and Thunderblast procs added to the mix as well while slayer’s got a higher frequency of SD procs to react to. Recklessness already amps up the priority of Rampage in the rotation due to it’s extending of it and it being a higher stack applicator for Rampaging Berserker’s buff as well due to each strike having their own independent crit chances to boost up that buff even further.

What else do you want to track and react to? Especially when you’ve got next to no customisation on tracking different buff conditions in the first place.

UF procs were entirely passive and you almost never even noticed they had activated since you instead opted to press other buttons outside of rampage due to how much they equalised damage per cast between fury’s abilities through their relentless pursuit of adding 50 different effects onto every Raging Blow cast.

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Once again, I’ve shared my feedback in the public Alpha forum, for whoever cares to read it.

Mostly just highlighting some of the remaining problem areas, and theorizing some mostly-reasonable suggestions to improve them. Otherwise, I agree with p much everything Arty already touched on above.

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Some things I hope get changed.

Blood Bath. I would really like to see this changed to be an 8 sec dot that is increased stack intensity like ignite does rather than increase duration. I am happy that RA is no longer a choice node now at the very least, but still think the bleed should just be intensity stacking.

100% should interact with execute as well. I would love to see it interact with other aspects of the kit, but then it may make it too strong?

Avatar and Blade Storm being choice nodes is… well makes sense from what they are pushing with the hero talents. I am okay with it I guess.

There really needs to be some type of rage interaction with Rend. I don’t understand why they gave it to fury with no interaction at all.

Far too many raging blow talents still.

Everything else was already covered.

*edit, I would love to see Javelineer updated at least in pvp so heroic throw will put a slow on the enemy perhaps Or if they give it a silence in pvp, make it have a long cd like 30 to 45 seconds.

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A few additional gripes.

  1. Why do we have 11 talent points in our first gate with only 8 points to spend? I’m pretty certain we are the only spec in the game that has this many. Improved Execute and Improved Raging Blow are about as dumb of talents I can think of.
  2. I’m concerned about the loss of enrage on Bladestorm, but since we can assume Unhinged will always be paired with it - maybe it’s ok?
  3. Without any way to prop up Bloodthirst critical strike chance I’m not feeling excited about these talents that only work if Bloodthirst crits
  4. I like the idea of Meat Cleaver and Rampaging Ruin giving us AoE options, but both of these talents are very jank and in the case of Rampaging Ruin it’s both terribly tuned and confusing to understand.
  5. In the middle gate of the tree I feel like I need one more talent point to play with
  6. Surge of Adrenaline is a super snooze talent. Critical Thinking isn’t much better as a gate and I don’t see why I’d ever go that direction compared to the other options.
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A side note that Bladestorm benefits from RA because of Unhinged and only Slayer has access to Bladestorm(Mountain Thane cannot fully function without Avatar).

I feel like a form of Depths of Insanity(basically increased reck duration) should be baked into RA and the bleed from Bloodbath should be removed entirely, We already have enough bleeds and Bloodbath’s bleed due to how it’s designed is pretty irrelevant; The new Deep wounds is basically the Bloodbath that ppl were asking for and they delivered, we don’t need another significantly worse version of Bloodbath on our tree.

RA design wise is fine as it, It just needs to juice up Recklessness more like if It increases Reck’s duration beside making it like Metamorphosis it will be pretty fine.

Meat Cleaver is very fine but it has one concerning issue so far, If tuning badly It might inspire us to cancel aura whirlwind stacks; Whirlwind stacks should just be not cancelable and Rampaging Ruin should not overwrite Rampage’s strikes.

Surge of Adrenaline should swap places with Wrath and Fury; power wise Wrath and Fury is much better and more fit to be on the capstone area.

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im just here to do my angry stomping around about Rampaging Berserker until its changed.

Further more taking away the free enrage from bladestorm makes me scratch my head considering it was one of their exact points they made about fury warrior and wanting to make it simpler.

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Assumption is that between Odyn’s Fury becoming more universally available and Unhinged returning to Slayer, it’s no longer seen as necessary, which is mostly true:

  • During a regular opener, Bladestorm will generate 25 + 20 from Unhinged, multiplied by 1.5 during Recklessness for a total of 67.5 rage. Adding this onto the 30 rage generated from Charge and 30 rage from Odyn’s Fury results in more than enough to Charge -> OF -> Bladestorm -> Rampage.
  • Mid rotation, you now get up to 70 rage from Bladestorm/Unhinged once Imminent Demise is stacked up, plus a little extra from auto-attacks, which is still generally enough to lead and follow with Rampage even outside of Recklessness.

The only time it becomes iffy is in those non-standard situations where you’re Bladestorming without Recklessness, without Imminent Demise, and potentially without Odyn’s Fury. In this situation, you’re dependent on either having Deft Experience or getting at least 1 out of 2 Bloodthirst enrage procs to maintain the effect (having leftover rage from the previous Rampage also helps). Having none of these things working in your favor is admittedly quite rare though.

  • ^ This is the absolute worst case, on a character with zero Haste gear, no Reck/Deft/Fresh Meat, using Bladestorm at exactly 80 rage, and not proccing Enrage from Unhinged. Not a very big gap to overcome, so any one of those things going right should solve the problem.

  • ^ Same conditions, except the proceeding Rampage was used at ~120 rage instead of 80, meaning only ~40 needed to be generated to use Rampage again after Bladestorm, which is reasonably achievable. We could argue that pooling like this is a bit unintuitive, but I don’t think it’s an unreasonable amount of skill expression to expect out of players engaging in such a niche situation.

If I had to take a wild guess, I’d say they probably don’t want Bladestorm to overgenerate out of fear of it becoming more important to use for maintaining Breath of Reck than for actual damage… though the real solution to that should be changing the problematic apex.

TLDR it’s odd, but not really a problem outside of the most unlucky of situations in which Bladestorm is being used with the absolute least amount of support possible. In my personal testing, dropping Enrage while using Bladestorm under these conditions still almost never happens, even though I also initially thought it would be a problem.

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It’s like a less complicated Test of Might. It’ll happen so passively I don’t think it needs any changes necessarily. The takeaway is rampage as much as possible after hitting recklessness. It makes our spender feel like a priority spender. If your concern is “I NeEd a Wa To TrAcK tHiS”, you really don’t.

I get it, but it’s also the micro-nuance that separates top-end from average joe. Did you Reck into charge or remember to BT for a free enrage before you hit your Bladestorm button? I think it’s a move in the right direction to keep simplistic gameplay with presence-of-mind, on-the-fly decision making.

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Read through the post, and I’ve got some opinions. Largely agree with most of your propositions, and it really seems you’re the ONLY track we have to the devs. Definitely not backed by them taking your advice on flipping Odyn’s, Bloodborne and Executioner’s Wrath positions (still not convinced that absolutely 0 of the class devs have ever played, let alone mained a warrior).

Because Rampaging Ruin is such a controversy in its current iteration, what if they changed it to a Blood and Thunder style proc, where instead of nerfing baseline rampage damage and letting it uncapped cleave, it applies Rend to all targets? Frankly, I think Meat Cleaver was redundant when it upped Imp WW from 2-4 targets, as NOBODY ran one without the other, and it continues to be as the current revision to increased WW dam really seems like more of a formality, but (as fury continues to suffer) exists as default throughput talent. If they flat out removed Ramp Ruin and changed Meat Cleaver to apply Rend to every target hit by WW, or something to that effect (even targets hit by RB while imp WW is active or something [triple down on the bleed class fantasy they appear to be going for now]) it would give us some more immersive, button spam gameplay.

They’re looking to simplify Fury while avoiding uncapping our baseline Imp WW AOE. The supplement appears to be passive bleed application. Let us REALLY deep dive the fantasy and give every ability a bleed to try and keep up. It’s UBER spinning plate to min/max, easily trackable through the debuff tracker on nameplates (give us ENLARGED personal debuffs) and simple enough to implement. We have 4 buttons (RB, BT, Ramp, Execute). Let each of them have a personal buff to try and maintain uptime (RB - Rend, BT - CSHB, Ramp - Ramp Berserker, Execute - DW).

Gives the right amount of RNG for a lucky top parse. Easily trackable debuffs off the target nameplate. Makes RB the spam button equivalent to MT’s thunder clap for rend uptime. Wutchu think?

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It may seem that way, but I can assure you that they read the vast majority of feedback, not just mine or the other alpha forum posters (though there is something to be said for feedback based on practical testing, rather than observance alone). They have people on these forums and in class discords daily.

I just happen to be pretty decent at compiling and presenting information, which is put together from talking to a lot of different people and hearing a lot of different ideas/opinions here, on discord, and elsewhere. I also like to think that having 20+ years of personal experience to draw from is also pretty helpful for brainstorming and problem solving! :sweat_smile:

I think this is an intriguing idea for a very bleed-focused Fury, though a couple major points stand out to me:

  • As you already note, it’s a lot of things on the UI at once. I already don’t love the fact that Fury can have up to 5 bleeds active at one time, and this would make it pretty constant.
  • Conversely, unless you also change the way those buttons are used or give those bleeds very different durations, I feel like most of this would be maintained fairly automatically over the course of a normal rotation? Bloodthirst is used every 3 GCDs, Rampage every ~6, with RB filled in between, so they’d need to be very short bleeds to have a major impact on rotational decision making.
  • If you really wanted to lean into this idea, I think each of those bleeds would do something different other than damage. For example: Rend ticks enable RB use, RB-bleed ticks generate rage necessary to use Rampage, and Rampage bleed ticks trigger Sudden Death, but that’s a lot more moving parts.

I definitely agree that Rampaging Ruin needs to change though. At the very least, making the tooltip more clear by saying something like Rampage deals 50% reduced damage, but now hits all targets... would solve some of the misunderstandings.

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I do agree the latest changes seems overall much better, especially the pvp-dedicated section removed, but replaced with that execute to boost rampage is kinda weird to me it almost feels like the Arms talent rather than fury.

putting Avatar with Bladestorm node and separate OF into its own node is 10/10 move, I approves(even though im not a fan of Bladestorm being in fury tree - RP reason its Arms signature).

Surge of Adrenaline and wild strikes made me scratching my head whats the point of them being there if no other compliment talent for them, auto-attack damage/speed boost and that’s all, no rage generating boost? no proc something(i.e. annihilator blizzard, annihilator) since auto-attack nowaday barely deal 1.5% of total dps compared to older days where it contribute heavily. not to mention how much I hate the surge of adrenaline which is dancing-blade gutted from OF upgrade.

Lastly, the tree really need some creativity changes, given for example if you jump to our neighbor dual wielder : Frost DK, the tree is much more fancy compared to Fury being everything Blow this Thirst that, ‘XCute those.

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There’s something funny about this comment of yours, Frost DK’s tree has more variety as it’s got dedicated ST and AoE abilities.
Whereas Fury’s main AoE driver Meat Cleaver/Improved WW w/e you want to call it is hindering any option to provide a little more diversity in the toolkit outside of just buffing it’s rotational ST abilities which just also hit up to 4 extra targets.

Mention this being a glaring weakness in design and that they should go down a different route in providing more dedicated AoE to fury over this and people will be screaming at ya.

I miss it man, was such a fun playstyle.
None of this spamming a single button consistently resetting itself, just good ol fashioned cd management gameplay then throwing rampage in the mix between those short ability CDs to reduce empty GCDs as much as possible.

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I feel like people grabbed onto the statement from one of the earliest Dragonflight alpha builds about annihilate being a low apm alternative and it was under appreciated ever since. Even though it literally never existed as that on live servers.

There was a lot of merit to the cadence and flow of the annihilator gameplay, and certainly feels superior imo to this BT or RB spam that we’ve had in TWW.

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Honestly the only people to take it like this from what i hear is the blizzard devs themselves.

They removed it going into TWW under the guise of “it being a failure of providing a lower apm variant of fury”.
It didnt help at the amount of nonsense that came out from certain echo chambers before they even had a chance to play it, then the crying about not talenting into AM followed.
The drama surrounding duplicate botted votes on EU forums that led us to the awful rb spam s2 set for s4 when s3 was the superior playstyle (and most fun) for both ST and AoE. Which lead to a lot of regret from those bad actors since they never got their amazing m+ seasom they deluded themselves into thinking they would have.

That’s been my most hated aspect of fury this xpac ever since they destroyed RA going into S2 which bought back RB spam for slayer and BT spam for Thane.

Midnight changes a little of this by removing slaughtering strikes, but one wrong tier set and it’s back to spamming RB again.

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Because it was an absolute failure in that regard, having never affected APM whatsoever (outside of very early alpha, in which Cadence of Fujieda actually made it slightly faster).

While certainly not as flavorful, the choice between Powerful/Frenzied Enrage was a much more straightforward option to tweak combat speed without railroading players into specific playstyles they may or may not happen to enjoy.

It was originally meant to be an alternative SMF playstyle, only changing after it became apparent that expecting Warriors to maintain multiple sets of weapon would cause issues with the ability to change talents on the fly.

That’s when the “lower APM” idea started getting kicked around, but it never actually manifested even during the alpha/beta.

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That’s the thing though, while yes it was. It provided a much cleaner gameplay devoid of ability reset nonsense and put more focus on managing short cooldown abilities to minimise downtime. Which lead to pressing a different keybind every GCD, which tends to be a more enjoyable gameplay loop.

So they should’ve focused on the positives that came out of it and built up further on it as the main playstyle for fury going forward rather than reverting to the distasteful one ability reset spam nonsense we’ve ended up with today which has effected both hero talents equally.
Funny thing too, most of the clamouring about annihilator dislike was the fact that AM wasn’t taken in it’s S3 build.

And yet now RB spam is getting a decent amount of hate overall so players still got railroaded into a gameplay loop they didn’t happen to enjoy post S1 TWW.

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Only after about a dozen other changes throughout the course of TWW, and keep in mind that with Reckless Abandon also changing in 11.0, that gameplay would not have survived regardless.

Also while you found it more enjoyable, that doesn’t mean everyone did - it was an extremely polarizing playstyle, often just as harshly criticized as it was celebrated. Not the least of which because of its one-button macro.

There’s a keen difference in everyone being pushed towards a playstyle and people who want a specific “accessibility” option being pushed into a unique playstyle.

  • Strictly speaking, just Slayer is pushed this way. Mountain Thane still exists as the pseudo-analogue to Annihilator, even if isn’t quite the same playstyle anymore.

Annihilator also came with a whole lot of extra moving parts, which required separate balance to maintain - whatever may have been lost in the process, Frenzy vs Powerful is a unilaterally cleaner way of accomplishing that specific goal.

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