#1 let me start by saying that I have not played alpha so I can’t say how any talents feel to play. With that out of the way what I will say is that I have played WoW since 2004 and I have been a warlock main since WoD, demo main since BFA.
I have seen a lot of good feedback for Demo when it comes to PvE (basically the spec sucks currently on Alpha). As a pvp only player I wanted to provide feedback from that POV.
What Works:
- Making Dreadstalkers automatically summon Vilefiend is great. This gives us 1 less thing to cast for set up and reduces button bloat. Honestly one of the few good things for Demo in Alpha so far.
- HoG turning into EoG: HoG has always been weird to me. It cost so much for so little damage. Cost Shards plus casting for insignificant damage. EoG gives us a single target cast which does more impactful damage in PVP which is good.
What Doesn’t Work:
-The first glaring problem with current demo alpha is the wild imp gameplay design. In pvp wild imps take a lot of damage passively. With the majority of Demo talent tree centered around imps this creates a serious problem where our damage is being passively destroyed just from regular gameplay from specs like Dk, and DH and any other spec that has AOE as part of their regular rotation. This problem is made worse when imps last now 40 seconds. It would help if wild imps couldn’t be targeted nor damaged in pvp content.
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The cap to wild imps is a fundamental weakness unless they do far more damage than EoG. In pvp less ramp up is always better than long ramp up unless there is a big payout after the ramp up. Currently it doesn’t seem like there is any real advantage to the ramp up of getting max imps except having access to EoG. This will mean that in a pvp setting the player is better off not selecting any of the wild imp talents to have a lower ramp up time to EoG. This is a problem as there are currently at least 6 talent nodes directly related to wild imps in the tree which takes away the choice of having less ramp up time. The solution would have to make the ramp up far more worth it than what it is currently.
- EoG is a cool ability but right now it doesn’t do much and is not built-in to the talent tree much. I think that EoG should be made to synergize with wild imps since it is already the single target option. I propose the following:
1. Include talents which cause EoG to interact with wild imps.
- EoG has a 10%/20% chance to also cast HoG summoning 3 wild imps (similar to imp mother talent in retail. The wild imps summoned this way go beyond the cap)
- During Tyrant EoG chance to also cast HoG doubled.
- Dreadlash and Fel Firebolt have a chance to turn your HoG into EoG and make it instant cast (still requires the 3 shards to cast)
- EoG increases the damage of all your minions by 2% for 20 seconds stacking. New applications don’t increase duration.
- Damage from Evil eye has a high chance to summon an Infernal to attack your target for 10 seconds.
- EoG has a chance to cause your next 1/2 shadow bolt to open a Nether portal and summon a random minion to attack your target for 15 seconds.
** These talents don’t complicate or add any bloat nor do they change much of what is already established with the tree. They do incorporate EoG much more into the spec and make the ramp up to EoG more meaningful and impactful.
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Demo is missing a single target finisher cd. It has been mentioned by others and I think it is even more important for demo in pvp. The spec really needs a heavy single target button. Right now Tyrant is almost a non-existent ability as it has been watered down to the point where it is not worth the time to cast it if it didn’t buff other minions. I propose a new talent that becomes available only when tyrant is active:
- Thal’kiel’s Consumption: During Tyrant Thal’kiel drains x% of the life from your minions and unleashes a blast of Shadow damage at your current target equal to the life he stole. 5 second cool down (can cast a max of 3). This creates incentive to cast tyrant with max minions summoned and makes tyrant relevant while giving demo a unique mechanic back.
Overall I think that the addition of EoG is a great idea for demo I just wish it was incorporated more in the talent tree. Right now the spec while definitely simpler doesn’t remove the heavy casting requirement which is rough in pvp. While it seems like Midnight will have less crowd control the game still has too much micro cc for a cast heavy spec like demo. Demo needs an ability which prevents movement and interrupts besides unending resolve.
Alpha feedback post…
Has not played Alpha…
oh no…
I’m glad I scrolled to your post before reading the OP… These forums are something else…
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If you’ve played enough Warlock and Demo through enough versions, it doesn’t take playing Alpha, to see what an unmitigated problem the alpha tree is for Demo locks.
That said… combining all the “dogs” into one summon is a mistake, removing flexibility for convenience, saving a single cast time.
And EoG is a weird kludge, when HoG could just simply not summon Imps over the character’s specific cap on wild imps.
For PvP specifically, saving a shard and a cast for the same benefit is huge with the dog.
I’m not sure I would call EoG a kludge. It has a clear purpose, being a single target shard spender, and If current numbers on the alpha are any indication of how powerful they want the spell to be it’s doing more than double the damage HoG does to a target. I could honestly see them tuning it to do even more than that as well.
I do think outside of Demonic Knowledge it should have some way to generate cores and interact with the imps though.
There’s definitely a few things I want to wait till I try it on the Beta (cyclic implosion rotation, apex talents), but there’s a couple of problems you can see coming a mile away even without Alpha access.
Removing Soul Strike, Soul conduit, and having imps last for 40-55 seconds means less time casting HoG or spending core procs and more time spamming shadowbolts. If the devs want this new single target game play loop to work it needs 1 more piece to complete the puzzle.
We’re also losing Vilefiend/The hounds, Demonic Strength, and G:FG as buttons. Removing demonic strength makes sense, it was something we always combo’d with Tyrant anyway so replacing it with the new aoe tyrant talent is good decision. Removing the other 2 is more dubious, our rotation is looking really bland now when Power Siphon and Tyrant are down.
Somewhere in one of the other Alpha feedback threads someone made the proposal to remove Tyrant’s demon extension and turn it into a instant cast 30 second CD with a choice node between Ranged/ST Tyrant or Melee/Cleave Tyrant. Then bring back Nether Portal for our big CD and I thought it was a simple but pretty good idea.
I keep throwing this one around too, just reduce EoG shard cost to 2 shards. Would smooth things out a ton and it’s another fairly simple change.
To address the blandness I keep coming back to making Demonic Calling reset the CD of Dreadstalkers alongside the other things it does. Even if they only want one set of dogs out just despawn the previous set and let it proc demonic cores. Makes the combat more interesting with a proc to use “Now” and not in 15 seconds when the CD finishes. All the better if we get the cores when the previous set of dogs fade.
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This is in part showing the big gap between Raid and PVP play… and the sort of solo open world content I’m mainly doing.
A lot of these changes in the Midnight alpha are clearly done without any regard for open world solo content, doing delves, etc. In that context, being able to roll from one fight to the next, keeping one of the CD demons up at a time, being able to meter out a portion of the full combat power, makes for a much more enjoyable and smoother experience. Cramming all the “dogs” into one summon, taking away Grimoire FG, etc, is going to hit those of us who aren’t into the Raids and PVP and other content that some players – and Blizz – consider the “real” game… very hard.
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I dunno I mostly focus on single player content. I play Blitz and Solo rated PvP around 2.2kish and cap delves week to week for my main PvE gear sourcing. Affliction is my favorite spec but I play all 3 of them fairly regularly in Delves for the variety.
Even with that in mind I still think the dog consolidation is a good change. Saves a shard every 25 seconds and Vilefiend has 15 seconds less downtime every minute. I’m really hoping by rolling Vilefiend into the Dreadstalker CD it’s also gonna count as one for gaining cores. I do agree we are missing a 25/30 second CD like many others though.
I suppose it’s probably just playstyle but I don’t find myself splitting CDs on Dreadstalkers and Vilefiend like that. I use both pretty much on CD. I do section off Demonic Strength/Tyrant/G:FG though to use for only large packs or the more difficult enemies like the bosses or nemesis enemies.
I think with the introduction of EoG, to address Demo’s mobility issues, HoG would work as an instant cast ability. Could help with the start of combat and during single target EoG will still root us in place. It would be good flexibility.
Either that or they need to give EoG instant proc, way too much casting of shadowbolts.
I just really don’t get the dev/devs in there who’s focused on forcing casting shadowbolts on demo. At least give shadowbolt an instant proc chance from felguard hitting things or hog one of those two needs an instant proc. I don’t care about the ppm but it needs to be there
All that stand still to cast is no longer the wow it used to be when every other spec doesn’t follow this any longer . We need an instant for either hog or shadowbolts. 2 expansion ago I would of been against but the game is just getting crazy with mechanics and now with this new version of demo, the whole stand there to cast some shadowbolts is just not the gameplay…
I do like the vilefiend and dreadstalkers in the same button though and the curses having an aoe function for mythic+.
I don’t understand the appeal or purpose of EoG, besides Blizz not wanting to code a limit on HoG popping Imps when it hits…
No one does.
This came out of the left field. I don’t think any of us were expecting a full demo rework all over again since it took them since DF to get it to a good point.
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I like my new fel laser and I’ll not have you take it from me. Complain about everything else if you must but I refuse to lose my fel beam now that it’s shown up in the class.
I also like the fel laser idea. Getting a bunch of eyes of Guldan pop out of Nether Portal was fun back in the day, I think if they dedicated 1 or 2 more talents into building the eyes it would help make the new single target rotation feel great
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It’s the sort of thing that Talents should actually be for… options that some players will take and others won’t.
I don’t care how it stays as long as it stays