Rogues had 0 changes this week and there was 0 communication about if there will be changes.
Main tree still needs Thistle Tea and ER to be replaced. The first is just outdated flavor and the the second is mostly disliked across all 3 specs.
Alacrity needs to be reworked. Dont need 3 points just to buff uptime and its in the way of DS.
Improved Sap is still the most useless talent on the tree, might as well put Soothing Darkness in its place considering the capstone in Shadow Dance.
SnD should be reworked as well.
Sin Rogue still needs Echoing Blades and a way to connect all those aoe talents smoothly instead of going in and out of ST and AoE.
2 charges of Shiv aint it. TTB aint it. In fact 4 talents for one ability not even core to the spec aint it. Why wasnt one reworked into the current Sin 2 piece effect?
Sub still heavily lacks on cleave.
Where is Goremaws? Id much rather have that than Sepsis.
Shrouded in Darkness is a useless talent.
Current Sub 4 piece effect should be a talent in some way.
I disagree with like over half the points you made here and I’m pretty ok with the rogue trees atm. I would maybe move elusiveness/cheat death elsewhere to taking SD doesn’t require taking cheat death.
Yeah that’s a fat no. I don’t enjoy brainlessly pressing evis 4 globals in a row due to pure dumb RNG. Rogue is about planning builders and spenders ahead of time.
Thats cool. Still means there are some changes you can discuss. Even if the devs didnt plan to make more changes itd be nice to hear “hey we are done with this class and feel its at a good spot”.
I was thinking more along the lines of having a button or replacing premed with an effect that lets shadowstrike be applied on up to 5 targets at once. Less about the spam nature and more about reasonable cleave.
When ever i try to make a build with the new trees that i think i might like, i end up with no capstone in the common tree. and also no cheat death because cold clood for outlaw is dumb =(
honestly, numbers wise, the build i picked would probably be pretty bad. /shrug
I’m mostly okay with the talents… but I do agree alacrity shouldn’t be where it’s at. It’s a talent practically zero sub rogues ever pick and it’s forced to get now for another Deeper strat? That’s the sole reason I won’t get 1 of 2 Deepers unfortunately. I do like that I can finally get Cheat Death though
Im guessing its a bug the the description with 3 point is 20% Haste stacking up 5 times XD. Its impossible having 100% Haste buff all time.
I wouldnt mind the Torghast Improved version XD
I dont need that.
That I agree . We need a out of comat healing other than Vial or SnD passive healing.
I really want Deadly Poison into Class tree instead of Shiv and a Nerfed version of Red Ink for Sin. Like only the poison first and its % buff added to Lethal Dose. Like 30% added + 2% per poison/bleed on the target.
I like Goremaws too. Or even Srated would be great since we could upgrade it via Dark Brew. But I’d prefer Goremaws thats for sure. Im not a huge fan of SL ability added cause they are baked to have the Conduit with them while we get a none conduit no leggo version.
Mood, thistle tea is extremely outdated; especially even more so as sub because we get so many talents that just throw cps and energy reduction at us.
I don’t think any of the talent trees should have 3 point talents, it legit just gets in the way of anything remotely meaningful. I’d like to see it become 2 points, perhaps bump Seal of Fate up to that spot?
Speak for yourself , in a pvp sense that would be amazing since Hemotoxin is so op.
Agreed, I feel like the people who designed our trees actually don’t play our class. Perhaps even the game itself.
I was talking about this with a friend the other day, the energy portion of this would need to be changed though. We already have a lot of energy, I think this would be way to much.
Once again 0 changes of communication. Its pathetic lmao. Every xpac they pull this.
Anyway you know those Sylvanas Daggers? Id much rather have that effect as a Sub capstone instead of Shadow Mist. Its a cool way to implement an execute. Fits the sub theme as well.
Also Secret Technique should be pure shadow damage and benefit from Shadowed Finishers. Thats another easy change to be implemented.
Look at hunters case. I don’t get it. Did hunters community bribed devs or called out names at their forum to get so many dev posts, anwers and talent tree changes and tuning almost every week??
Devs on DH: we hear your feedback, we will remove Glide (!).
Say what? So heavy change, but no problem, community wants it, we will do it.
Shamans, mages - get reworked in pretty significant way after community feedback too.
The last big change for me was before Shadowlands to make Sub spec viable in PvE. Now it seems Gouge is back which is really cool, but so many, often basic and quick needed changes still remains. Changes we call out for years.
Being Glide was never part of Momentum in the past, and was highlighted to be easily abused via simple macros, I would think it was very beneficial for the Rogue community the Talent was changed (as would be a competing leather DPS).
This is alpha. The focus should be how the talents feel not how they may compare to another class dps wise. DH players couldve decided glide is ok with momentum and it wouldnt matter regarding your point.
You’re more than welcome to ask an educated DH player’s opinion on adding Glide to Momentum. Fact is, the developer (the very same developer behind the Rogue tree) had been called out on a bad design decision that was extremely obvious. Darkolive’s crying that DH’s get changes so quickly neglects the fact that the change in question was incredibly simple to fix, and needed no debate into its functionality, as there were zero precedences of having Glide attached to Momentum.
As for my bracketed comment, it was on the role of leather dps as both Havoc DH and all Rogue specs are of the leather DPS while also being worked on by the same person. With this said, I can only assume that developers responsible for DH and Rogue are focussed on a yet-to-be-released Vengeance DH tree.
I do agree that tuning at this stage of Alpha does not factor into the design in making a class “fun”, though you have misinterpreted into thinking this was about tuning, as opposed to the role of DPS.
In short, Darkolive shouldn’t be crying doom about a change to a DH talent that would be ridiculously easy to abuse. Likewise, Hunter and Mage have come from an extremely lackluster tree design standpoint for DH. Is it really that hard to understand that other specs will need attention during the Alpha process???
Rogue tree has a bunch of bad design decisions that are just as extremely obvious. Some of which ive already laid out in this thread. Its insanely ironic for you to acknowledge his bad decisions in one class tree but not another in defense of your argument.
Except for the fact that rogues have such obvious problem in the tree as well. Problem that are both incredibly simple to fix and have no need for debate. It wasnt crying.
Both situations can exist Considering the only recently released Havoc tree, and the unreleased Vengeance tree, I’d say that particular developer would be busy.
Saying this, there has been communication within the Rogue discord, and while it may not be optional for you, it is a much better platform for discussion for those who (unlike yourself) hold weight in the Rogue community.
While true, the fact that you’re even comparing these issues show that you are completely ignorant of the problems that Blizzard faced in allowing a simple jump-cancelaura macro to exist in the game (it mirrors the cancellation macros of Fel Rush for Momentum (the exact scenario)).
Your complete unawareness of blatant whataboutism is quite frankly pathetic.
The point was to highlight a very quick reaction toward other classes vs rogue, where in rogue case years of repeating the same request didn’t get even answer “yes we do it / no, we don’t do it”. The approach before Shadowlands, when rogue got some changes at the last minute (or so to say rather bandage tuning problems). The approach “here some changes” vs. “we hear your feedback and we do this changes / bring back one of your favorite ability”.
I’m pretty happy with many changes concerning rogues (Premeditation reintroduction, Gouge - finally, poisons, weapons oils, stones and SnD come back to Sin and Sub, making Sub PvE viable, better flexibility with DF rogue talent tree), but at the same time I want to emphasize what devs could do better.
And besides that, I think it is hard to deny someone’s point of view, especially when that person opinion is based on observation of an approach towards rogue, history and changes of that class since 2006.
Despite of some trollingness of Xæthron, it’s hard to deny his opinion.
, in a pvp sense that would be amazing since Hemotoxin is so op.
Considering the only recently released Havoc tree, and the unreleased Vengeance tree, I’d say that particular developer would be busy.