Alliance, would you forgive the Horde?

Community General Discussion
202

Oh there’s a choice. Giving my :fu: to BfA and staying the hell out of it for the time being. :sweat_smile:

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It isn’t the same Alliance either, but they both carry the legacy of each. But even when the Horde began its transition in Warcraft 3, there was no attempt to apologize, to integrate peacefully, to take ownership of the mistakes they’ve made. Hey, if I’m wrong, please correct me, I haven’t read all the books, etc, so maybe Thrall or someone made some sort of quick, off the cuff apology for killing so many native Azerothians during the First and Second Wars.

Of Course, the Retcon certainly muddied things up by trying to take responsibility from the Horde, but it has been shown that the Horde is prone to Evil and Violence since then.

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But aside form that, Arthas’ men followed him all the way to Northern, and, if he hadn’t killed them, would have followed him further. If you want to blame the Horde for turning out evil leaders, you have to give Arthas to the Alliance.

That’s not how that works.

You don’t blame a faction for an evil villain that left the faction before becoming evil/as it was becoming evil.

Arthas was pretty much the good guy right up until that fateful moment. It was even one of those “the hard choice vs the moral choice” moments, where he, probably, made the right choice.

By the time he became the “evil” person that we knew him as, he had only a smattering of followers who (as loyal subjects) were going to follow him no matter what. He wasn’t an Alliance leader, he wasn’t in a position of power relative to the Grand Alliance without his father’s name, and more importantly he held little to no sway.

Arthas may have been a member of the Alliance, and near enough to power, but that is not similar to Sylvanas at all.

Sylvanas was, and remains, a Horde Leader. Arthas was never an Alliance Leader. Even more damning is that Arthas was only relevant to “The Grand Alliance”. This was an alliance of the 7 human nations, and it fell apart during the Warcraft RTS era. The Alliance we have now is a reformation of that Alliance, which was literally only Stormwind and non human nations. Kul’Tiras is set to return, and Gilneas has returned, since.

Not to mention that since most of the Human kingdoms split from the Alliance, you’d have to blame the kingdom itself for it’s actions. Much like when a child leaves home, it’s accountable for it’s own actions.

So that begs the question… where is Lordaeron now? Oh, the Forsaken. Who belong to the Horde now. Under Sylvanas’ rule. The Kingdom that spawned Arthas is now squarely in the Horde, not the Alliance. The only people who could have done something about him are part of the Horde.

TL:DR

  • Arthas wasn’t a leader. It’s like blaming the Horde for what Saurfang decides to do even though not a single Horde leader let him do it and they’re all hunting him down.
  • Sylvanas is a Horde leader and has been since the beginning of the MMO.
  • The Grand Alliance is not the same Alliance, and even if Arthas was a leader we’re not in the same political group anymore.
  • If we’re blaming the Horde, we’re blaming it for the leaders it has, and has had. Arthas is neither. The Horde owns Sylvanas because she is a literal leader, the Alliance can not “own” Arthas because he is not and never has been a leader of any alliance, let alone the current one.
  • Let’s not forget the Lordaeron belongs to the Horde, now. The only human kingdom that spawned Arthas, is now part of the Horde.
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207

I have to say, that is exactly how I read it. If you are right, then my point is moot. But it is hardly a new line of argument for the “dismantle the Horde” faction.

As far as “blame”. The blame goes to Garrosh, since, you yourself pointed out. I do agree that, just as you can’t blame Arthas men for what Arthas did, you can’t blame Garrosh the entire government for Garrosh’s factions.

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Keep in mind the last time the alliance beat the horde- it was the Alliance who took slaves. What exactly does the Horde have to pay the alliance with anyway?

The tauren have nothing of value, the darkspear trolls are the battered remains of a race the kaldorei genocided the crap out of (and never paid reparations to, btw), the goblins lost their home and most of their people to Deathwing (good luck getting a cent out of Gallywix), the blood elves have been reduced to half a city.

The orcs live in huts… I mean, really- the Alliance is the 1% compared to the Horde when it comes to wealth, you’d be trying to squeeze blood from a stone.

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Maybe during Legion I could have. After everything the Horde has done, all their war crimes, and every horrible acts they’ve committed, I could have been okay with peace again.

Not after Darkshore. The entire Horde is complicit. If this war ends with an Alliance victory and every single Horde leader isnt executed, there is no justice.

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Forgive, not a chance but I would accept that the majority of them had no direct control over the burning of Teldrassil. But that doesn’t excuse they turning a blind eye to the Forsaken defiling our dead on Darkshore.

I would dissolve the Horde as a military alliance, confiscate all azerite weapons and stoke piles (to be destroy along side our own), order the destruction of all blight stock piles, the removal of all Horde forces from Darkshore and the Forsaken relocated to Northrend. As a race they can no longer be trusted and Bolvar can keep in eye upon them. Oh and of course the execution of Sylvanas.

Like I said, I don’t blame most of the Horde but their leadership has proven time and time again that they can not be trusted to police the bad elements within their ranks until they have gone off the tracks.

In the end I completely expect the writing team to force a truce upon us and there will be no consequences for the Hordes actions.

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The Horde was began by an alien invasive species under control of the Burning Legion. They are no different from Eredar. Orc WILLINGLY drank the blood of Mannoroth, knowing full well that the price for that power was “everything”, turning their back on the “honor” they like to run their mouths about before they ever set foot on Azeroth.

And speaking of setting foot on Azeroth, when they did, their first activity was to commit genocide. Just the first of many. Then they QQ’d until this very day about how they were treated after untold fel-murder they committed across the planet.

And then when they got their chance at freedom, did they learn from their lessons and settle down peacefully? No! They rallied other races to join them in ransacking the world yet again. This time they cannot even make the flimsy argument that they were under Legion coercion. That was ALL. ORC. Orcs are locusts, the other races of the Horde are hive-keepers.

As if all of that isn’t reason enough to exterminate an unbidden alien species, one of their own from the planet they ruined before ours was so underhanded he even betrayed the Legion, getting himself used as a reagent for the Helm of Domination which unleashed Azerothian Hitler, Arthas Menethil as the Lich King.

The Horde botched their attempt to subdue Deathwing. They committed genocide and riled up an old god on Pandaria. They paved the way for their alternate selves to come to Azeroth in the form of the Iron Horde, proving that even in an alternate universe Orc have no honor what so ever. They let a genocidal maniac who uses death itself as a weapon sit on their throne and endanger the whole planet by screwing around with Titan plans for her own gain. They committed genocide YET AGAIN when they murdered the citizens of Teldrassil.

On and on and on and on.

The Horde is not forgiveable. Legion isn’t over. We’re still suffering the effects of Sargeras’ meddling in the form of the Horde, as created by fel orcs who have no natural right to be here in the first place.

No forgiveness. No peace.

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212

Alliance would want to control Horde. They do not care about forgiving them. They will make them pay then restrain their every movement.

Take this example below:

Rell Nighwind says: I am not surprised. The Horde are monsters!
Rell Nighwind says: We are here on a peaceful rescue mission - will you help us?
Taran Zhu says: I have seen your Sky-fortress. Your people have an interesting notion of “peace.”
Rell Nighwind says: Left to their own devices, the Horde will overwhelm your land.

There are more current ones like the when Sylvanas went against Anduin and then the other when they went for the Azerite.

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Seize this moment, Varian. Dismantle the Horde.
Oh, what could have been.

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Jaina was right. The Wryn dynasty is weak.

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No, it’s just Varian’s idiot son who’s too inept to rule an Alliance at war.

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Ok, long answer. (What I would do, versus what Blizzard would do)

First, all sympathizers, regardless of race - die.

Now, as to those who fought against Sylvanas. Each would have an occupying force in their capital city.

Don’t like it? Win the war. Lord knows we’re treating you better than you would treat us.

Blood Elves - You’re getting some new neighbors. Specifically the clowns from Suramar.

(Suramar is unceremoniously mana bombed. I semi-sorta get siding with the Horde. But the Alliance helped free you from the Demons too, who oh by the way, you were oh so willing to capitulate and kow tow to. Suramar was Paris 1940)

Lorthre’mar is made Regent. And he answers to Tyrande. And if he p!5535 her off, I hereby give permission for her pet bear to eat him. Honestly I think he’ll toe the line.

After all, it wasn’t us that turned his kinsmen into Scourge

Tauren - A couple of things. One, not so much an occupying force, but a Dwarven embassy. Oh, and the Grimtotem? Yeah, somehow they’ll “disappear” from Azeroth.

And we apologize for digging in your ancestral burial grounds.

Trolls - You’re really going to have to explain a lot about your culture. From the Loa to the different tribes. We’ll help you get back on your feet, but, and this is a BIG but, putting the band back together is one thing. Putting the band back together and deciding to conquer the world is another.

Oh, and we’re getting Vol’jin back. I don’t know how, but we are.

Highmountain Tauren - umm, you get the Gnomes. Just don’t step on em.

Mag’har Orcs - I remember helping you guys way back in the day. You probably shouldn’t have gotten caught up in this, but here we are. You get Humans to keep an eye on you.

Orgrimmar - First off, we’re putting Thrall back in “charge”. Maybe he can knock some sense into those thick skulls. You get special # 1 occupying force - the Draenai. Who may be good for something after all.

Goblins - see above. And give me back my wallet.

Finally,

Forsaken - For starters you can clean up Lordaeron. I don’t want to hear any complaining. You made the mess, you can pick it up. Oh, and you don’t leave Lordaeron. Consider yourselves under semi-permanent quarantine.

Any Forsaken who just want to go back to sleep (the Grave) can do so. We’ll extend the quarantine to Brill.

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Varian should have ended the Horde when he had the chance. Anduin is weak because he’s been cloistered in his opulent royal life drinking milk. Varian was a slave. He should have known better.

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218

The power of plot armor, friend.

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219

So disband the horde get orcs off planet and what game do you plan on playing if that happens .

World of Hello Kitty ?

If they do away with either faction completely and any playable race the game is over and any one that wants that has :poop: for :brain:

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Don’t get meta on us. We have SERIOUS BUSINESS to discuss.

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Neither side can win the war because:

  1. there will be angry paying customers who decide enough is enough and leave the game.
  2. If one sides wins then the game is over.
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People are looking at the small details and making their decisions but missing the big picture and that will probably come with 8.2 with Azshara

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I only wish there were more Horde to kill. #GarithosDidNothingWrong