I just got out of a curious, but very predictable round of Alterac Valley. It was the usual PuG fight, Alliance trapped in SHGY until they gained control of SFGY, and then Horde pushed north.
But even when completely behind, the first thing the Alliance did when set free at Snowfall was to just run straight to Drek. No attempt to back-cap, no effort to get get a bunker or a graveyard foothold against the Horde.
The first, and only plan I have ever observed the Alliance employ is just “Run to Drek or die trying,” and it honestly confuses me. The Horde can and do win games keeping a force back defending and one attacking…but I have never seen any Alliance force willing go back and defend Stormpike/DB (Usually only when forced to spawn there if SHGY gets capped before SF.)
I feel that honor/hour isn’t the main focus for many of these payers, so I am generously curious why is there consistently zero effort to defend, even when 30 Horde are stuck back on defense and 10 cap everything north and kill Van.
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We used to advance south… Kill Galv and cap/defend towers. We’d also run a solid defense. But this was 2007-2009 when the Alliance pretty much owned AV on my battle group (Ruin.)
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Alliance pugs are a concentrated bunch of average players, poor players and afk bots.
As a comparison, imagine your horde pug then take away all the good players. Then try to win with what you have left.
Even if we could organize and try and push our way through the BG while taking objectives we would still lose due to being outmatched - both in numbers and skill.
In these circumstances the only strategy is to push south and kill lieutenants for honor. Nobody in these pugs even dreams of killing Drek in a rush.
I have a 0% win rate with alliance pugs. Zero!
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Unfortunately, I am aware of what the premades have done to Alliance pugs, and I know it usually leaves pug teams at a relative disadvantage to Horde pug teams. But, no one even tries to recall and defend DB. Or tries to take back Stormpike when a single rogue capped it and left.
I am not saying Alliance pugs are losing only because of how they play, but when the only plan is “run to Drek, or die trying,” sometimes you just die trying. Having a whole bunch on defense and a few on offense is good enough for the Horde, and I honestly think the Alliance should give it a shot.
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The map is Horde favored.
Horde have an amazing chokepoint right at the entrance to their territory - the IB Chokepoint. Perfect location to defend the tower, and reinforce it with the nearby graveyard. There’s only one way in or out - through the gated path that goes right by the tower. And any respawning Horde have several options - they can choose to simply survey the area from the GY Cliff from SAFETY, and then jump down and defend the one path in or out.
Turtling horde can essentially play defense at a chokepoint FROM THE START OF THE GAME - essentially denying Alliance even 1 point of Honor if they wanted to.
Meanwhile, Alliance’s chokepoint is deep inside our base, once Horde have already destroyed 2 towers and divided the Alliance army in half by taking SHGY or SPGY. Oh and by the way, you can backdoor exploit into Dun Baldar and take the Aid Station and towers by just running up the mountain and completely skipping the “chokepoint bridge” anyway.
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But if you’re all ready on the backfoot, why are people still refusing to defend? Surely that has to be better than running to Drek and dying on the way?
This isn’t a talk about about the tired and over used talking points about AV’s map design though, they have been brought up and debunked in a hundred other threads.
When do you play? I have about a 33 percent win rate in pugs atm. Will go up with the changes as atleast half my losses are from it being 10 vs 40
And waste time on a 2 hour turtle instead of a 40 min one? Defense kills hph.
No thanks. Better to win fast or lose fast. A win or loss is just a mark on a column. What matters is honor and how fast you can get it.
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Because most alliance know how a defensive game will end for them. The map does not make defense the best strategy for them. It will often end up with them trapped north of stone hearth unless they have a much stronger team.
The horde side of the map is much easier to defend starting at iceblood.
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I don’t feel that honor per hour is the main focus of Alliance pugging AV.
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I have seen a decent amount of alliance recall and try to defend. However, that’s been from some of the premades (most premades will not defend to not extend the game but it has happened). I was in one game where I am 100% sure it was a premade as I was talking to one of them on my server discord and in that game they sent back every mage repeatedly to aoe, trying to win. The ally PUGs are very bad and I feel for those with the 60% mounts.
How do they know it though? I have literally never seen Alliance willfully defend. And the times they’re forced to defend because of where they spawn…they actually hold SP/DB for upwards of an hour.
Iceblood is the only thing the Horde have that is easy to defend though. Everything North of IWB is easy for the Alliance to defend…in my opinion. Everyone knows Vanilla AVs lasted hours…even days, and it wasn’t because of Iceblood.
It does sometimes happen. I do it myself sometimes.
The problem is that, from experience, it doesn’t increase our chance of winning (still 0%). It just makes the game last longer.
And once we have killed all the lieutenants we can, a longer game is just more pain sadly.
But I understand what you are thinking - if the horde can defend (even against some premades) then why can’t the alliance. I used to think the same myself and even managed to coordinate some defences sometimes (wiping 30 horde at Balinda was a highlight). But it just never made a difference overall.
Ultimately the skill and numbers of the horde pugs are too much.
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I have seen them try to defend. Stone hearth is far too open with horde approaching from several different directions so once they lose stone hearth, and they will, they will spawn north and trapped behind stone hearth. If it was as narrow as iceblood defending would be a better strategy but it’s not.
Being trapped behind stone hearth and farmed from all angles at storm pike is not a fun experience. Why should alliance pugs set themselves up for that?
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It cannot be any more fun than being camped at the Relief Hut, but if it buys enough time for the handful of people on Offense to win the game. I cannot imagine it being fun to just run across the field of strife over and over again dying trying to run to Drek either…not even trying to dismount.
Both Stormpike and DB are far…far easier to defend than FWGY or the Relief hut. I honestly believe a handful of people actually trying could hold the Horde off indefinitely.
The good leaders set up a defense team but these are few.
That is debatable. Frostwolf is no harder to defend than stone hearth and storm pike has too many ways in to be a good defensive position. Why set yourself up to get sniped by ranged classes on the hills above storm pike as you rez?
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Meanwhile, Alliance’s chokepoint is deep inside our base
So Icewing Bunker isn’t a choke point, huh?
How is it a choke point when it’s behind the graveyard? It is literally sitting behind the resources alliance need to protect.
It does make a good horde choke point though.
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