Why do I always get the feeling that the faction I enjoy playing the most is just at best a plot device to help move the Horde story forward. At the end of cataclysm is where this feeling has started for me and each expansion since then its just been getting worse and worse. Sure the Alliance has some stories sprinkled in but when it comes to the larger picture its always been Horde front and center.
At the end of cataclysm, it was the horde faction leader that more or less saved the day.
In Mists of Pandaria - New Horde leader becomes a tyrant, needs to be stopped.
Warlords of Draenor - Tyrant leader escapes, goes back in time and its horde on horde action.
Legion - I felt that legion was kind of 50/50 and wasn't bad at all.
Battle for Azeroth - So far it feels like the the horde is maybe split on the leadership and the alliance are just around to push out a new horde leader.
In the end to me it's just a huge let down to always see the faction I enjoy the most always take the back seat. Battle for Azeroth still has time to maybe pull its self out of this tend but only time will tell.
I know I'm over simplifying things and there's good alliance stories out there but in the grand scheme of things to me the Horde are always in the spot light. Anyone else feel this way?
Um... it's FICTION. Both Alliance and Horde are just plot devices. Both wax and wane over time.
11/02/2018 11:54 PMPosted by ChikishiUm... it's FICTION. Both Alliance and Horde are just plot devices. Both wax and wane over time.
I know that but one's purpose for the last 5 or so years has only been to serve the others story.
Horde side... it does not look that way. I understand what you are getting at, but there's two sides to the same story here and everything you posted could be flipped around. One example would be the serious substantial salt over the Pandaria Garrosh and Nazgrim arcs.
If the story is revolving around the Horde at a particular time, that makes the Horde the plot device, not the Alliance.
I caan say the same about the horde (well besides legion where horde didnt exist it felt like), our leaders either die off or become evil to further the plot and the rest are forgotten about (looking at baine :( )
11/03/2018 12:04 AMPosted by GelatoIf the story is revolving around the Horde at a particular time, that makes the Horde the plot device, not the Alliance.
11/03/2018 12:04 AMPosted by HinderingI caan say the same about the horde (well besides legion where horde didnt exist it felt like), our leaders either die off or become evil to further the plot and the rest are forgotten about (looking at baine :( )
^^ thanks for putting that better than I did.
Yeah pretty much, now we're seeing that again.
"We don't want you to feel like you chose the wrong faction"
Great job there...
...
Plot device has a meaning within the collection of concepts that apply to fiction. Your comment doesn't really make sense as being fiction alone doesn't make something a plot device.
"We don't want you to feel like you chose the wrong faction"
Great job there...
11/02/2018 11:54 PMPosted by ChikishiUm... it's FICTION. Both Alliance and Horde are just plot devices. Both wax and wane over time.
...
Plot device has a meaning within the collection of concepts that apply to fiction. Your comment doesn't really make sense as being fiction alone doesn't make something a plot device.
11/03/2018 12:01 AMPosted by ChikishiHorde side... it does not look that way. I understand what you are getting at, but there's two sides to the same story here and everything you posted could be flipped around. One example would be the serious substantial salt over the Pandaria Garrosh and Nazgrim arcs.
I don't see how it could be flipped? I could very well be missing something.
11/03/2018 12:09 AMPosted by Resolve11/03/2018 12:01 AMPosted by ChikishiHorde side... it does not look that way. I understand what you are getting at, but there's two sides to the same story here and everything you posted could be flipped around. One example would be the serious substantial salt over the Pandaria Garrosh and Nazgrim arcs.
I don't see how it could be flipped? I could very well be missing something.
Rather than create a story for both alliance and horde (Wrath), Garrosh (horde) was used as the plot device to move the story to its final chapter, while alliance was just along for the ride. Horde felt like they were being used to move the plot forward which they didn't like, while alliance felt like they were just there as observers to it all because all the story was about the horde internal war.
Now in BfA, Alliance are a straight up plot device to get the Zandalari on team horde haha.
11/02/2018 11:51 PMPosted by ResolveAt the end of cataclysm, it was the horde faction leader that more or less saved the day.
In Mists of Pandaria - New Horde leader becomes a tyrant, needs to be stopped.
Warlords of Draenor - Tyrant leader escapes, goes back in time and its horde on horde action.
Legion - I felt that legion was kind of 50/50 and wasn't bad at all.
Battle for Azeroth - So far it feels like the the horde is maybe split on the leadership and the alliance are just around to push out a new horde leader.
Cata: Horde lost their preeminent and undisputed leader to a strange retirement. The power wasn't harnessed, plunged into a leadership vacuum filled by an inexperienced, racially centered, belligerent young orc. Strategically, Most locations were left open to opposition due to the environment. The Barrens, Kargath, 1K needles, Desolace, and others were either split, threatened or destroyed.
Mists: Horde Civil War. Leadership decapitation by the hands of the Alliance, notably the Human King Varian. Alliance walked away the victors of the exchange.
Warlords: I really wish the Draenei got their missing raid tier. There was a lot of room for them to grow, particularly Yrel. But that's more lamenting what might have been.
I feel like the campaign was more akin to "help Khadgar defeat all the things!" and Alliance were weapons free for Orc hunting season. Horde side felt really similar to Alliance side, honest.
Legion: Yay
BFA: Alliance definitely seem to have had a better redemption story, while the Horde side have been a tragic tale or series of unfortunate events. We're all trying to figure out what makes us tick, and I don't know if the Horde so far are finding their stride so far. It's only Act II in the story, and the story has been stellar so far, and there's more to be had
11/03/2018 12:09 AMPosted by Resolve...
I don't see how it could be flipped? I could very well be missing something.
Rather than create a story for both alliance and horde (Wrath), Garrosh (horde) was used as the plot device to move the story to its final chapter, while alliance was just along for the ride. Horde felt like they were being used to move the plot forward and had no say, while alliance felt like they were just there as observers to it all.
I get what you're saying here but it was still horde focused wither it was good or not.
It’s because the horde are more interesting thematically. They just have more potential for dynamic characterization. Boring “good guy” types have only a few options and dynamics to play: actually just boring good guys, making the wrong decision based on misinformation, or having good intentions but causing bad things to happen.
The horde have a lot of angles to play: oppressed and misunderstood, underdogs, complicated antiheroes, conflicting motivations between factions, pursuit of glory versus realistic goals, etc.
It’s not that the alliance couldn’t be a more dynamic faction with just as many themes, but just the stark reality that the alliance is a boring straight-man faction that will always be the naive and idealistic setup for the horde’s significantly more interesting actions and responses.
The horde have a lot of angles to play: oppressed and misunderstood, underdogs, complicated antiheroes, conflicting motivations between factions, pursuit of glory versus realistic goals, etc.
It’s not that the alliance couldn’t be a more dynamic faction with just as many themes, but just the stark reality that the alliance is a boring straight-man faction that will always be the naive and idealistic setup for the horde’s significantly more interesting actions and responses.
Antorus was pretty much an alliance only story, for horde i just felt so out of place the entire time.
It’s because the horde are more interesting thematically. They just have more potential for dynamic characterization. Boring “good guy” types have only a few options and dynamics to play: actually just boring good guys, secretly bad guys, or having good intentions but causing bad things to happen.
The horde have a lot of angles to play: oppressed and misunderstood, underdogs, complicated antiheroes, conflicting motivations between factions, pursuit of glory versus realistic goals, etc.
It’s not that the alliance couldn’t be a more dynamic faction with just as many themes, but just the stark reality that the alliance is a boring straight-man faction that will always be the naive and idealistic setup for the horde’s significantly mote interesting actions and responses.
Couldn't that perception of the alliance being a "boring straight-man faction" just be the end result of them being placed on the back burner for years.
Intresting, what about it made you feel out of place? im just curious11/03/2018 12:27 AMPosted by LareaperAntorus was pretty much an alliance only story, for horde i just felt so out of place the entire time.
11/03/2018 12:22 AMPosted by AssistanceIt’s because the horde are more interesting thematically. They just have more potential for dynamic characterization. Boring “good guy” types have only a few options and dynamics to play: actually just boring good guys, making the wrong decision based on misinformation, or having good intentions but causing bad things to happen.
The horde have a lot of angles to play: oppressed and misunderstood, underdogs, complicated antiheroes, conflicting motivations between factions, pursuit of glory versus realistic goals, etc.
It’s not that the alliance couldn’t be a more dynamic faction with just as many themes, but just the stark reality that the alliance is a boring straight-man faction that will always be the naive and idealistic setup for the horde’s significantly more interesting actions and responses.
That is because they are written that way. Wrath was about a human who literally did morally grey stuff for what he thought was the greater good of his people and fell into the role of evil bad guy (like Garrosh). It's just the writers don't write the alliance that way in WoW, which is a shame.
11/03/2018 12:31 AMPosted by ResolveIntresting, what about it made you feel out of place? im just curious11/03/2018 12:27 AMPosted by LareaperAntorus was pretty much an alliance only story, for horde i just felt so out of place the entire time.
Because everything was Velen, illidan, and lightforged. They had stuff on the broken isle (suramar, high mountain) but Antorus was all the space ship with space goats, and light forged.
11/03/2018 12:22 AMPosted by AssistanceIt’s because the horde are more interesting thematically. They just have more potential for dynamic characterization. Boring “good guy” types have only a few options and dynamics to play: actually just boring good guys, making the wrong decision based on misinformation, or having good intentions but causing bad things to happen.
The horde have a lot of angles to play: oppressed and misunderstood, underdogs, complicated antiheroes, conflicting motivations between factions, pursuit of glory versus realistic goals, etc.
It’s not that the alliance couldn’t be a more dynamic faction with just as many themes, but just the stark reality that the alliance is a boring straight-man faction that will always be the naive and idealistic setup for the horde’s significantly more interesting actions and responses.
That's what made the Worgen narratively exciting for the Alliance, very puritanical culture that had to harness and learn to accept their feral sides in order to overcome their differences and fight off a greater threat.
They actually present morally grey story telling for the Alliance.
They need to work on giving that kind of depth to the other races, especially with allied races now.
oh by all means take the plot. Maybe then we could keep a leader for more than one/two expansion again.