Alliance Elves really needs better treatment

Lore Story Forum
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I can’t really speak to that because I don’t consider myself a High Elf fan. I’ve never been particularly interested in High/Blood/Void Elves. I have no problem with the Horde getting playable Ogres just like I have no problem with the Alliance getting playable High Elves.

I’d agree that if there were playable High Elves for the Alliance, they should be entirely divorced from Quel’thalas. Preferably starting over in a new nation that has nothing to do with Quel’thalas or the Horde.

…and this just brings us back to the beginning, because it’s this specific argument that I have a problem with. They didn’t want Thalassian elves, they wanted Alliance High Elves. That’s been very, very clear since the start. I find it hard to believe you truly didn’t understand that, and thought all they wanted was the Blood Elf model to be playable on the Alliance, without a single care about the lore behind it.

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Some of it is because there’s no one type of request for High Elves, it’s everyone’s individual desire for it, that ranged from people who were happy with original void elves all the way to people who would prefer if a lost group of pure high elves returned to the alliance in a glorious event that saw the blood elves removed from the horde. So there’s no one view of the crowd, so it ends up with the requests stacking up to bigger and bigger asks.

I’d hope it’s not the way it would happen if more were to be given to that crowd, but I’m not optimistic about how that would be handled. But to keep with this forum, I feel like adding straight up High Elves as playable alliance thing would change the tone of the Blood elf lore in a way that reflects the poor ways the lore has treated the horde lately.

Not when they joined the horde.

You do know they had invaded their territory around the time they joined up with the horde and were not particularly behaving themselves there?

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M … unconvincing. The orcs (all) were still massacring the high elves.

One small camp. Not once an invasion.

To be honest, no, I don’t know. My knowledge is what they say on the forum. Basically, they discussed the explosion of the sanctuary, but usually they don’t talk about the camp.

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Sure. The blood elves’ military leader, the guy responsible for taking Zul’jin’s eye out during War 2, was nothing but respectful toward Vol’jin and the Darkspear. They even joined forces to take on the Amani the second time.

Chronicles touched on this too. Theron acknowledged that Thrall’s Horde and the fel-enslaved Legion puppets he’d fought against in the past were different entities.

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There were 2 locations with alliance friendly high elves. Hinterlands, Loch Modan, some in Outlands.

Also, there was a peculiar event prior to blood elves joining the horde.

Given that there was a fraction of high elves who felt obligated to help with the Dark Portal venture, as well as some who doubted the decision to join the horde, alongside with the above mentioned groups they could’ve splinter from the horde. In this case there would be no “but my Silvermoon” debate along such characters, because them leaving the place (maybe triggered by the BfA events, or something) could be presicely because that is the point - to voice doubt in the Silvermoon legacy and to go in another direction.

I still have no idea how the devs expected such plotlines to ever work in a game (expansion in this case) with a bunch of “revenge is awesome!” stories.

Bad QA is bad, I suppose, and does not extend beyond “looks like it works”. No product integrity, no consistency. /sign

gl hf

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One “small” invasion that involved taking an entire beachhead for themselves, and was spread entirely all over the blood elf territory.

All during a period in which the Blood elves were desperate for help and were at risk of falling to the scourge.

…yeah, it’s no wonder they held a grudge over the Alliance deciding to dick them over during that period of time.

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Bro I think she just used up all the power she had at her disposal. Just before she used up large amount to chase sylvanas. I think people are looking to deep into it.

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But of course they need it!!

However, DO pay attention to OP´s post. You´ll see his focus is centered in 2 things:

  1. Mentioning the Nelves as a tangential (I mean apparently Darnassus never existed and we all had a massive allucination of it) and basically ranting over “muh Helves” -he doesn´t even take into consideration a city could be made in that “rock in space” owned by the Velves, he literally mentions them as an afterthought.

  2. Complaining the “Horde elves” don´t lose territory -and sorry but this is the classical “anti-Belf Helfer with bloodlust to see Silvermoon conquered by the “correct” thalassian group” mentality-. He mentions Suramar as IF the city was an actual Horde city gameplay wise (I mean in this sense the Velves have MORE stuff, after all we have a ridiculously small area while the rest of the city is stuck in Elisande´s times, ergo NOT a Horde city gameplay wise).

So me thinks you guys are defending the “correct” idea exposed by the wrong poster with the actual toxic attitude and arguments (is not “Alliance elves deserve to get good stuff” but “I won´t aknowledge the good stuff Alliance elves have and had and also I want this cause Horde elves donm´t lose stuff!!”).

Yes, and the devs DID NOT deliver and made the kingdom of Quel´thalas a Horde nation. Ergo, it´s like what, almost 15 years of have been told “No” and them refusing to listen?

I mean, I don´t have an issue with the decent Helfers who indeed only want their Human bootlickers becoming playable and who are 100% concious the development of their “fav” race will put them both further away from Quel´thalas and closer to the Humans, but for me is uncomprehensible and nothing short of a child´s temper tantrum the attitude of the ones still QQing over “muh Silvermoon” and who overall worry more for what happens (or doesn´t happen) to the Belves than their “Alliance Helves”.

Well, the customer can´t complain if he asked for Salmon and the waiter told him/her the restaurant had already served the last piece of Salmon to another customer and were out of it.

Well maybe next time act like adults and accept the restaurant was out of Sprite? Cause that´s what happened, the race WAS playable, just not in the specific way they wanted.

It´s like Horde players complaining that Ironforge Dwarves weren´t Horde when those were more closely affiliated to Old Horde remanents in Vanilla.

I invite you to dig into the very old “Helf megathreads”. Did you know their “celebrated” Silvermoon Warfront Scenario had them poaching Halduron from the Belves?

As someone who has had to listen to the “Belves shouldn´t be Hurde!!!”, “Gimme MUH Silvermoon in the “correct” faction” and similar “arguments”, let me tell you this DOES happen. Not every time and not with every Helfer ofc, but the sad thing is that when it happens most of the supposedly “responsable” Helfers say nothing and give their silent approval (though lately we have more sensible Helfers willing to back with actions their words and who do come out to say “I DON´T want to take Belf stuff from Belf players”).

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Are you still trying to make a clam that I’m only supporting and only giving more ideas and support for High Elves/Void Elves than the Race that has been on the Alliance long before them?

First off the Night Elves have suffered more than the Silver Covenant, Void Elves, and etc Thalassian Alliance Elf all at one, Second Night Elves used to have more Lands up until the Horde took Azshara, nearly half of Ashenvale, some parts in Stonetalen Peak, and of Course Darkshore until the Night Elves finally won the Zone back, Third Are you trying to paint as if I only talked about Void Elves instead of Night Elves?

This Post is about Alliance Elves in General. Which means its everyone High Elves, Void Elves, and Night Elves. Not one single Race.

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you couldn’t fill a city with the canon number of Rendorei and Queldorei left.
there aren’t any Alliance Thallasian elf cities because there aren’t very many Alliance Thallasian elves.

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and Kaldorei, therefore there will also never be a new Night Elf city.

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In short, Yes they most certainly do.

They actually get along pretty well with the Darkspear, as they share a common ancestral enemy in the Amani.
they fit into Thrall’s Horde nicely after the Forsaken opened the door for them.

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The High Elf mania has been a running issue since almost day one of the MMO. Night Elves were scarcely even talked about on this forum until that teaser portrait of Teldrassil on fire was leaked out by Blizaard.

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Helfers are gunning for the MHP’s most annoying forum user title

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I am 100% for Alliance High Elves - if it means more Alliance Players, and the game lasts longer, and more Elf Lore, and maybe a Quelthalas revamp. Or destruction. Something.

It is just sitting there. Pretty much in perpetual debt to BC Sylvanas for keeping the Undead in control somehow…

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Just letting people treat players like any other regardless of faction unless they turn PVP on would solve those problems. I don’t think High Elves would instantly fix population disparity.

Besides, unless such changes are made and the factions aren’t this weird “we hate each other, but most of our leaders don’t”, using High Elves to update Quel’thalas, unless it has Blood Elves/the Horde simply win the situation and makes a good case for sticking with the Horde, it would be the nightmare scenario of Alliance simply taking claim of the BE pie, which wouldn’t satisfy hardcore HE fans anyway because the Alliance wouldn’t own the whole thing.

Also since it would be a faction war thing, what city would Alliance players tolerate suddenly having to share the most?

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I am not sure what you are saying…

Do you mean that there can only be one answer to a problem? I think allowing Alliance High Elves would boost the Alliance population at least some. There are other ways to do that - and this is just one way among many.

You know that still doesn’t give the Alliance their Queldorei who never joined the Horde - which is among the things on their checklist.

So simply abolishing the Faction Lines solves the Faction Population problem - but not the lack of Playable Alliance High Elves who were never Horde.

The Queldorei could still be added as a Playable Race, after the Factions are abolished. Maybe that would cool people’s heels.

This is not a means of total satisfaction - but it would go a long way towards it. None of us should have total satisfaction, if our satisfaction comes at the cost of others.

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Except that is a small number of vocal people compared to fans of a very popular player race. Whatever, give them their High Elves, but make it clear Blood Elves are the majority and perfectly in their right to keep their lands (outside of some sort of agreement with the Amani that should happen). As long as the factions are as they are, it’s needs to stay as just a small, specially made slice of pie, not half of a whole thing to feed the equivalent of a single person compared to eight. You may be fine getting exiled from your own place, but ask Night Elf fans how people typically react to getting victimized, especially for a story not even focused on them.

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But it’s not a good one.

I’m going to come right out with this - I don’t believe that the Alliance problem comes down to racials, race choices, class distribution or anything really mechanical. The top 0.1% is going to chase absolute stat maximalism while everyone else chooses what they choose for a range of factors.

One of the biggest ones is “oh, well all of my friends are Horde”.

Oh, so why are all of your friends Horde?

Because the Alliance sucks.

That’s all there is to it. It’s boring, it often appears to be ineffectual. Anduin sucks, the Night Elves used to be beloved, but now suck. Worgen were a great concept that Blizzard never intended to follow up on. Blizzard forgets at times that Dwarves and Gnomes exist - let alone should have standout stories or identities. The Draenei meanwhile are over in the corner holding a sign reading “and we exist too”. The Alliance is a generic, boring high fantasy chamber where anything unique or interesting gets beat down into nothing until it conforms.

Playable High Elves on the Alliance would be more generic fluff to add to the generic pile. True, you’d get some converts - there’s a reason why Void Elves were as played as they were - but that’s not going to fix the overall problem.

It’s also not fair to Blood Elf players as has already been articulated. There are things I disagree with Ion on, but him establishing that the High Elves ARE now the Blood Elves was in my opinion one of the better calls that he made. We have to accept that Warcraft 2 was over 20 years ago - and that the world that World of Warcraft created was intentionally built off of the framework that Warcraft 3 left behind.

If you want to fix the “seriousness gap” with Alliance populations? Find a way to make them awesome instead of looking for ways to sand them down or jam them into the generic high fantasy box. Stop putting bullets in the heads of interesting concepts like the Worgen and the Night Elves. Stop teasing moral greyness and actually do it. There’s room for a lot of Punisher like stories - and those do work.

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I still don’t see much reason to oppose people playing Alliance Queldorei who never joined the Horde.

I consider myself at least as much a Sindorei fan as the next - and I feel fine with it.

I consider the Horde Sindorei closer to Tolkien’s Noldor. While the fantasy most of the Alliance High Elf fans ache for seems more akin to the Sylvan, Teleri, and Vanyar.

Let them have it.

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