In the Caverns of Time, you can visit the age when the Kaldorei shattered the world. It was a whole big thing.
So there’s a base-game, Alliance race that not only threatened world-shaking destruction, but actually delivered it.
Zero follow-up on future demonic threats, because they locked up the one guy who knew it was needed. Instead, they just went dark and stopped being sorcerers.
NPC’s lean towards night elf, including Cenarion Circle dwellings. Even the banner of the Cenarion Circle and it’s lore is heavily tied to Elune and not the Tauren equivalent.
That is because it was initially a formed with a night elven frame work. But in the same vein that the Earthen Ring was formed with a tauren/Horde shamanism frame work it does not mean said organization leans Horde.
And with Malfurion’s impending departure the most prominent Druid of circle will end up being Hamuul.
When the Draenei crash landed on Azeroth the naaru ship was damaging the local fauna/flora and they worked hard to fix it. Alliance is quick to fix any tech which damages the environment especially since Night Elf druids wouldn’t let the Alliance destroy Azeroth’s biosphere.
I think the closest have been by accident or lack of oversight as others mentioned the Dwarves in the Barrens, but recently we haven’t seen any race really damage the environment like the Horde has especially their goblins.
To be fair. That’s just a goblin thing in general. Regardless if they’re horde aligned or neutral
Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that. The Draenei care about nature, just like the Night Elves do. The Light shines on all creatures according to a Paladin on Exile’s Reach.
exactly! I can’t think of any other instances that haven’t been mentioned.
There is Medhiv (who is in fact the one most responsible for the First War). There is also Arthas. I wouldn’t call them “Alliance” (They weren’t working with the Alliance). But then the same is true for Sylvanas and Garrosh on Draenor.
Sylvanas was working for the Horde’s side in BFA, and Garrosh was working for Horde up until SoO and the rest of the Horde revolted. They both identified as Horde and operated on behalf of the Horde until they were ousted.
Arthas didn’t do anything exceptionally evil while he identified as Alliance and operated on behalf of the Alliance. You could count betraying mercenaries if you want, but that’s hardly ‘World domination’ like the thread is suggesting, and the Horde didn’t have to clean up the fallout in order to make the world a better place. Upon returning to Lordaeron he explicitly said he was going to burn Lordaeron to the ground and form a new kingdom, he left the Alliance by the time he became a Death Knight. As I said above, if Arthas is an Alliance character he is just as much a Forsaken character.
Medivh never identified as Alliance. The Alliance didn’t exist prior to WC2, and he was slain during the events of WC1. Medivh was also possessed by Sargeras since birth so the extent of his responsibility to starting the first war was because Sargeras willed it. He was only able to shed this possession after he was slain.
Muradin told Arthas about frostmourne lol
The mages of dalaran had no food inspection agency.
Jaina started civil unrest then just left kul tiras to split any which way. Daelin would’ve squashed the drust, Jaina left it to her idiotic vengeful mother, she was being played by that naga wannabe fatso.
The alliance literally ate out of onyxias hands in vanilla. At least Varian returned and killed her.
He said it was curse. He dont know what said curse was/it would lead to his very kingdom being destroyed(and even until his last moment before taking up the sword he still wanted to save it)
True, the people who discover weapons hold zero responsibility for those after who use them
Yeah, I was expecting some “angels dancing on a pin” type rationalization.
Garrosh didn’t try and destroy the world until he fled judgement to AU Draenor, when I he was most definitely not part of the Alliance.
Sylvanas was only technical working for the Horde, just as Medivh and Arthas were. Her true goals weren’t for the the Horde, just as with Medivh. Who was part of the Alliance decision making.
Arthas was most defiantly part of the Alliance. His people cheered him and he was considered heir to Lordaeron even as he brought the sword home (after he picked up sword). They certain considered him part of the alliance. And his decision to pick up a sword he had been warned about (taking a gamble with evil that world suffered for) was as part of the Alliance.
Well when you’re wrong I’m going to say so. It’s not a rationalization, just pointing out that if you’re trying to be internally consistent, it doesn’t make sense to include Arthas in this discussion.
He literally, not figuratively, wanted to dominate the world.
Sylvanas identified as a Horde character prior to being ousted. She was super proud to be the first woman warchief, according to Golden.
And again, Medivh was never part of the Alliance. The Alliance didn’t exist when he was alive.
He picked up the sword, killed Mal’ganis, left Northrend, killed his father, then renounced Lordaeron and sought to bring about the Scourge’s reign. So okay, if you want to count picking up Frostmourne as an evil act, then okay. But after he killed his father, he specifically stopped being a part of the Alliance. I’m being internally consistent here because I’m not counting whatever Sylvanas did after BFA in her tenure in the Horde, and I’m not counting anything Garrosh did after SoO as something he did as Horde. You’re trying to count what he did as Lich King as an example of an Alliance character doing something evil.
Which, okay. Let’s say that’s the case. Well then, again, Arthas is a Horde character because Forsaken have that same shared history with the Alliance. So, would you say Arthas is a Horde character as well?
If you want examples of evil Alliance characters, two were named. Benedictus and Fandral.
I don’t think Medhiv or Arthas are examples of the Alliance destroying the world, just as I don’t think Garrosh and Sylvanas are examples of the Horde destroying the world. I’m just pointing out that you can’t fairly blame the Horde for the latter two and not blame the Alliance for the first two.
Wanting to rule the world is not the same as wanting to destroy it. And even then, Garrosh’s goal for Orc supremacy was for the Orcs, not the Horde. He had a goal the Horde didn’t know about or support. Just like Medhiv and Arthas had goals, or made world destroying decisions, that their side didn’t know about or support.
Sylvanas may have been proud of being warchied (and I think “surprised” is a better description). But, it the same as Medhiv and Arthas, both were identified and an Alliance leader and accepted as such by the Alliance.
Yes, Arthas eventually renounced the alliance we he could no long hid what he is doing, so did Sylvanas and Garrosh.
You didn’t answer my question, Forsaken used to be Lordaeron just like Lordaeron used to be Alliance, so is Arthas a Horde character or not
The question in the thread was not specifically destroying Azeroth like blowing it up. The OP says “making the world worse”. This would include dominating it into a Horde supremacy paradigm.
You question was based on the assumption that I consider Arthas to be an Alliance character. My reply made it clear that I consider none of them (Sylvanas, Medhiv, Arthas, or Garrosh) the “responsibility” of their sides. At the point, I assumed it was also obviously that I didn’t consider Arthas to the Horde’s responsibility. (The argument failed in its own right, but was irrelevant anyway)
And, as Garrosh. Lets suppose you want to call wanting Orc supremacy the same as “destroying the world”. Don’t really care. Garrosh’s goal for Orc supremacy was for the Orcs, not the Horde. He had a goal the Horde didn’t know about or support. Just like Medhiv and Arthas had goals, or made world destroying decisions, that their side didn’t know about or support.
Okay, so we’ve established that the Horde has never done anything bad because of exceptions, and to extend the point neither has Alliance. I’m glad that through this discussion we have established that Blizzard has never actually villainbatted the Horde, and that any complaints thereof, are null.
Now that is a straw man. I don’t think any honest reading of what I said leads to that.
How isn’t it? Garrosh was doing everything on behalf of Orc supremacy, so he was not acting on behalf of the Horde. Likewise, Sylvanas was doing everything on behalf of the Jailer. These character’s motivations cannot count against their faction because their motivations did not ultimately benefit said faction. So therefore, Horde has never actually been party to these things, unwittingly or otherwise. So the Horde has never been unduly forced to play the villain.