and now blood is the tank.
No reason that couldnât change again.
I donât support âchange purely for the sake of changeâ. This is one area, though, I feel like it would honestly be much more appropriate.
Iâd rather all 3 specs be dps than my favourite spec have most of itâs dps removed just because a couple of people think the spec is replacable.
Sorry, what do you mean?
I woul like frost to have a Juggernaut button that turn it into a unstoppable tank.
Unholy tho a Dreadnaught that uses itâs ghouls n what not to tear through anything with unholy is surrounded by a miasma of ick. The swarm also protects you by taking hits so you can keep on trucking
I like teh idea of blood as a tank. With teh new talent trees idk why you canât spec into being a tank as any 3 specs.
If there will be a frost tank spec. We need am unique theme for it. Mitigation tank, we have pwar, vampiric tank - BDK, mobile kiting tank - DH, communist tank - ppal, delay tank - brew, jack of all trade tank - guardian. A unique theme like freezing tank, or absorbtion tank. The first is frost DK freezes a part of the dmg taken then unleashes it back to the attacker or converts it into self-heal. The later is frost DK converts a part of the dmg taken into a healing absorbtion shield, which can be a dmg absorbtion shield when frost DK uses his active mitgation ability.
The reason Frost is a DPS spec is the same reason that Havoc is DPS. Those specs are supposed to let the players cosplay as Arthas, Illidan, etc. Big popular characters, a lot of players want to play specs based on them. DPS is easiest to pick up and play and has the broadest appeal because of that, so all these specs based on major characters will be DPS.
Yes and no.
Demon hunter: Illidan is famous eye beam, fel rush â Havoc is the class signature spec.
Paladin: Uther using 2h weapon â Retribution is the class signature spec.
Warrior: Varian, Hellscream, Garrosh â arms/fury
Deathknight: Arthas â frost magic spells, reaping souls, raise and control undead abilities â frost unholy DK
Monk: WC3 character â keg smash, fire breath, high dodge chance â brewmaster
Druid: Malfurion, Ursoc â We see bear druids more often than any other ones â Guardian.
Itâs fine to make Frost a tank spec as long as it sticks to the frost magic theme.
Frost isnt DPS because of Arthas, its DPS because Blood was a better tank and their DPS/Tank experiment wasnt the success they were hoping for.
Arthas is aligned with unholy more than any other spec. From WC3 to the boss fights in wow. 75% or more of his abilities is either shadow damage or dealt with the undead. Even Frostmourne does shadow damage in WoW.
That might be how you and some players see it, but itâs not how Blizzard and the general gaming audience see it. When the casual audience thinks of Arthas, they donât think of shadow damage, death and decay & ghouls, they think of what they see on all the artwork and in the cinematics, a dude covered in ice, on a frozen throne, with frostmourne in his hand, with ice dragons, etc. I mean, take one look at the box art of Wrath of The Lich King. Does that say Unholy or Frost to you?
And sure enough Frost is the spec that Blizzard gave sindragosa & frostwyrm spells to, Arthasâ weapons in Legion, etc.
Agreed. I like Unholy as a big zombie-themed spec, but as said, it just doesnât âfeelâ as much like Arthas. In fairness, Arthas clearly dabbles in a bit of everything (donât really see a lot of Blood spells, but presumably couldâve), but yeah, a lot of the Arthas/Lich King imagery seems to convey more of a Frost theme.
Like I said, I just personally feel like those specs would be a little more fitting changed around a bit.
He was in Icecrown in Northrend, there is going to be snow and ice everywhere.
The Wrath cover screams location and not DK spec. Way to ignore what people actually do though. So tired of people doing that. Lets ignore him raising an undead army, ignore the Emberwyrms and say they were all Frostwyrms, ignore him leaving a wake of death on his campaign to Silvermoon and not a trail of ice, shadow traps, defile, Death Coil and all the other things he actually did for some location art with Arthas placed within it.
Again, weâre talking more than purely mechanical differences. I mean, if you associate Arthas purely with Unholy, thatâs cool. Iâm not even really debating that. Rather, each spec needs a sort of âidentityâ, and Unholy already has a ton to work with. Theyâre essentially plague-bearers and necromancers, so I feel like tapping into that imagery of Arthas would help give Frost an identity, beyond the purely-mechanical âthey deal frost damageâ. Making them Tanks I also think makes sense. Even if you take âArthasâ himself out of the equation, the point stands; a powerful, slow-moving juggernaut, clad in ice.
Similarly, while Blood-tanking USED to center around self-healing, it doesnât seem nearly as important part of their toolkit now. Plus, Blood started out as a Melee-DPS spec, which a lot of people really seemed to love in Wrath originally, and still in Wrath Classic. I think making it Melee-DPS again would be welcome, while also giving it an interesting niche if you utilized the idea of both spending and siphoning health.
Like I said, I think if you just look at the specs themselves, what theyâre supposed to be representing, I think Frost in particular just feels like itâs lacking a clear identity or âvibeâ.
My ideal interpretation of the Unholy spec has actually always been as a tank spec with pets.
I really feel like most of the classes should receive an additional spec, and that for dk it should be a reworking of unholy into two different specs. One would be called Plague, and would essentially be what current unholy is, focused around disease dots and such, but without the lame(my opinion) super pet that it has. The other would be the reworked Unholy, which I think would be sweet if they actually used a shield, and a large part of their gimmick would be raising a constant stream of ghouls with a lot of your abilities, so that youâre like the frontline tank amassing an army of throwaway minions, and most of your tankiness would come from sacrificing them for self healing and damage splitting. All of this on top of bringing back unholy aura for them so that theyâre also more themed around the unholy frenzy idea thatâs come and gone frequently.
As for blood and frost, I completely support the opâs idea of switching their roles, as well as removing dual wield; it would especially combine with the idea of having two tank specs: frost being the slow, 2hander wielding juggernaut that ccâs and oppresses his opponents, while unholy is the commander of the frenzied onslaught of minions. Unfortunately that change would be significantly more difficult to implement, and for the masses to accept. As it is, blood essentially IS the slow juggernaut, and frost is uh⌠the the frenzied spec I guess? I donât even know what they want frost to be.
However I do think that having a tank unholy spec which includes the theme of sacrificing minions for survival would free that idea up from being tied to blood, and then blood would be able to change back into a dps vampire-like spec. So maybe itâs exactly what they need to more closely make everyone happy.
And on a last note about frost moving away from being dps⌠Arthas in HoTS is definitely frost, and a tank, so thatâs just food for thought.
I hope they make death Knights RP walk with all this talk about slow juggernauts. The slow juggernaut is a complete fabrication. We were never slow, just hard to stop.
All specs started out as tank/dps they could do either. Tanking or DPS came from certain talent choices but mostly gear. It was just an experiment. Blood was the better tank.
It also doesnt make sense within the warcraft universe for death knights to be slow. Warriors are just strong mortals and plate armor doesnt hinder their movement, it really shouldnt to a DK that is filled with unholy power. They shouldnt be slow, they should just be hard to stop.
The tanks skills when the class was First introduced where all in frost except on in the beginning of blood spec for a slight damage reduction. I kinda forgot what is was but my dual wield tanks spec for frost was amazing in lich king then panda expac they removed the spec and made tanks bloodâŚ
Well the movement abilities theyâve been given sure seem to suggest that the developers think they should move slow; but when describing the âslow juggernautâ to me that just means like un-hurried and inexorable.
Except thats not at all what the DK is or was. We have always had access to at least 15% increased movement speed, increased mounted movement speed and everything went into making the DK hard to stop. So we were never slow. Even now we have more movement than we ever had AND they come with root breaks and forced movement immunity. AMS so slows and such cant be applied, IBF to break stuns. Everything screams hard to stop, not slow.
So wherever this âslowâ word came from it doesnt exist. They dabbled with mounted combat early on which they scrapped because it didnt look right with a mount turning on a dime. They wanted to create and they did create a rampaging death machine which is their own words.
So if people want to be âslow juggernautsâ then I really do hope they make DKâs RP walk. No one would take us because we would be stuck at the first boss while the rest of the group is on boss 3 or 4 just because we couldnt get there because âslow juggernauts with the weight of plate armor slowing us down which makes senseâ. They even bring up Arthas in HoR as an example of this âslow juggernautâ not realizing that he was just toying with his prey. When he got pissed at the end of it because we were breaking the walls, he moved like a stoked steam engine.
You cant have it both ways. People want this âslow juggernautâ architype but complain because we cant keep up with the group and that we need more movement speed. They have absolutely no idea what they want.
1 Like
The âslow juggernautâ fantasy doesnât refer to how quickly we can beat feet between fights as Iâm certain youâre more then aware. Not like weâve ever been a very fast moving class anyhow.