I don’t like it when those who are observably dishonest patronize, but then again, they are the only ones that do.
Everyone is aware of the balance in the game. It’s been 15 years. We’ve all known for that long. Your note has been posted. Thanks for sharing! Why are you still here? Bye!
…And instead of answering the question put to you, you busy with self-aggrandizing in a long-winded reply.
“Dood, I’m sooo honest, like im your best friend, if you play this way it won’t be “viable”, trust me dood, IM JUST HERE TO HELP BY REPEATEDLY POSTING MY POINT, yknow, just in case you missed it. “
Maybe if you could get past your cognitive dissonance that you keep displaying repeatedly…
“oh hey play what you want guy, mkay, BUT YOU WILL SUCK”
…how about you say your piece and move on, instead of arguing-but-not-arguing with people that don’t share your view?
Gotta get that last word in, just in case some innocent is led astray and starts spending talents into a “meme” spec…
False and unsupported allegation of dishonesty noted.
I have not said one word that has been dishonest in this thread. Stop lying.
If this were true, then no one would be asking whether these specs were viable. It’s obviously the case that some people who never played in Vanilla will come from retail with the expectation that damage specs won’t be totally neutered.
Moreover, this is no reason to actively lie about their capabilities when the subject arises.
Which question do you believe I refused to answer?
Those are not conflicting statements or beliefs. It’s entirely possible to believe that a spec sucks and also believe that people should play it anyway if that’s what they find fun.
You need to look up the definition of “cognitive dissonance” so you stop making yourself look so foolish.
This isn’t a matter of different viewpoints. This is a matter of objective truth. So long as people are replying to this thread with misleading statements about the viability of these specs, I will be here pointing out what is actually true about them.
Why are you so angry and butthurt about people sharing the facts about these specs?
So, after reading through this whole thing, I’ve decided that raiding with nothing but pallies for tank, heals, and melee dps and boomkins for ranged is probably the most desirable meta for classic. It simultaneously solves the issues of these specs being underrepresented and classic content being too easy.
So the OP was right all along: All specs are viable, and anybody not hardcore enough to take on the challenge just shouldn’t bother playing.
You don’t seem to understand that quoting someone out of context is only a problem if you are removing necessary context that would alter the meaning of their statements.
Simply quoting a portion of their statements so as to clarify what you are responding to is not in any way a problem.
Why are you so hung up on this? Do you feel at any point that I have used a quotation to misrepresent what you were actually saying? If not, then why do you continue to whine about this?
It also solves the Roster Boss issue. So many people are like, “my server is dead because we can’t get enough people to raid”. Realistically, they could get enough people but they won’t because they just drank a little bit too much of the META kool-aid and refuse to fill out their raid roster with un-optimized toons because they think they’re the next World-First Method Raid Team lookin for that Twitch coverage.
Meanwhile, the bulk of the casual raiding teams are filling their rosters with whatever they can get and actually raiding regularly. Having a grand old time doing it too.
I’m not sure everyone is though. There still seem to be a lot of people who think the differences in DPS are minor. They aren’t. There are still a lot of people who seem to think that “utility” will make up for it. It won’t.
Ret and Prot paladins are useless specs. You will never be invited to play them at end game. If you want to Plate Tank or Plate DPS, reroll now.
It may be overly pedantic of me, but I thoroughly dislike absolutes in these discussions. You have no idea what people will be invited to what raids.
As a ret paladin, you should certainly expect less enthusiasm to be invited to a raid then a DPS warrior. But I’d hardly say you will never be invited.
glancing over this thread and another thing that needs to be addressed is this claim that thinking ret or whatever isn’t good is only for “minmaxers”
Minmax is not taking a rogue over a ret. It’s when you don’t take a warrior tank because they rolled Night Elf instead of human. Tiny little edges only meant for the most hardcore, not what we’re discussing in the thread.
“See above. Yes, you can down bosses with a carry in the group, but the point is that a Ret Pally or Enhance Shaman is always being carried by their raid. They are not meaningfully contributing to the success of the group. You can succeed in spite of their presence, but never because of it.”
this i disagree with… a well timed BOP keeping a keen healer up. a hammer on a stray trash mob wrecking clothies in the back long enough for the OT to pick it up. that extra wisdom buff with kings already on. or that oh crap heal saving the buttocks of a star DPS…
these are things a good ret paladin can bring and often do to raids. its not so much the numbers, its also the player and thier style.
( I OT’d for much of MC in vanilla with my tankadin sure we all knew I was crushable but my utility in keeping adds and trash secure made the difference often enough to where I was STILL brought in in AQ as OT even with another war OT inthe group. I actually didnt spec into holy shield since its duration was never enough to remove crushing blows anywho it made more sense to set up as the general corral keeper than primary tank on anything.
DPS at a tankadin was laughable. ( you think ret is bad, check out what sad numbers a tankadin puts up.)
but the point wasnt holding records, it was keeping things moving by less graveyard runs.
The problem with this argument is that there is literally nothing in terms of utility that a Ret Pally can do that cannot be done just as well or better by a spec that doesn’t suck at its main role. A Holy Pally will do a better job of getting heals on DPS. They can throw Hammer and Blessings. Moreover, classes and specs that can actually do decent DPS have utility tools too. A Hunter can have its pet grab that stray trash mob. Rogues can blind it. Warlocks can fear it. Mages can sheep and frost nova.
There are lots of utility tools available to different classes. A good Ret Pally is always going to be inferior in terms of what it brings to a raid than a good player of a different class or spec.
