That’s all well and good, but “uwu I’m said and want acceptance” doesn’t magically wipe all your sociopathic tendencies and trauma projected on others away. I’m sure most criminals just wanted to be loved more as a kid, but discovering they had a bad childhood doesn’t magically mean their crimes are excused.
No it doesn’t. No one is expecting that, least of all me.
As a fan of “edgier content” as Thadeus put it, I want her to struggle earning her way back into anyone’s good graces but now she has the part of her soul that will allow her to repent.
Ok…? How does that discredit anything that Rez says? How does that “vindicate” - as in justify her previous actions - her? How are you this wildly inconsistent in what you say constantly?
This is a you problem. I have no qualms with the story being centred around the interpersonal drama of a handful of main characters.
All well and good, but that’s a you preference, and objectively, that narrative focus is a betrayal of what Warcraft was fundamentally built on.
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Yes, I admit that I haven’t read every single book/comic/youtube comment or whatever platform that Blizzard insists on making their lore cannon, but like other said, this does not absolve her of her crimes.
I don’t think Slyvanas isn’t worth saving, I just don’t think it would be a satisfying conclusion.
Slyvanas was all about Free Will, about having the choice to do the “right” thing, or the “thing” that was best fit.
She choose to slay Forsaken at Stormgrade, she choose to kill NEs at Telldrasil.
If she goes the route of “I am what you made me!” - ala Garrosh style, is that really satisfying? Does that do her character justice?
Is her character worth redemption because you pity her?
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Another thing worth considering is that - mainly for people who love Sylvanas - this new character is no longer her. We’ve known a certain brand of Sylvanas, the Banshee Queen, for the majority of Warcraft’s existence. The Ranger General only existed for less than three minutes in Warcraft III.
If the Ranger General is “back” (a plotline nobody was eagerly anticipating since they pulled it from thin air), then she’s not the Sylvanas Windrunner people love. Are people just cool with the Banshee Queen being erased?
And if she’s NOT erased, then she cannot simply now be characterized by the fragment of her soul that was just recovered, because the Banshee Queen was equally a part of her as well. Burning Teldrassil, killing the Desolate Council, starting the Fourth War - that was all still her too. Getting back her soul doesn’t magically mean she deserves redemption.
Even Gul’dan and his warlocks knew that you had to use domination magic as some form of necromancy because Gul’dan’s first generation of Death Knights served no one but themselves. This set the expectation that “selfishness” is inherent to being undead. All undead are inherently selfish so domination was used to bend their will to obey.
It’s always been a struggle to weigh if Sylvanas was selfish because she was vain, or was she selfish because that was the natural broken state of an undead who wasn’t properly bound to the will of a master? The Forsaken were bound to her will, but it’s become clear that all this time, she was bound to the Jailer’s will instead of the Lich Kings and it was his will that was selfish.
I’ve always thought it strange that not just Sylvanas but a whole host of people, an entire nation could go from pious decent people(in Sylvanas case HERO) to BLIGHT THEM ALL in a blink of an eye without any type of soul manipulation.
Your spider sensor didn’t tingle and say something isn’t right here?
That’s not what’s going on at all. She’s actually more the Sylvanas that we love, stop making things up.
I can guarantee you only a small handful of Sylvanas fans, the ones who only liked the Banshee Queen, and had wildly off base takes on who she was, feel like she’s a completely new person. Again, we are not a hivemind. I have a reputation in the Sylvanas fandom for not being “edgy enough” so I really have to laugh at Thadeus’s take.
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Honestly, all of this, ALL OF THIS, could have been avoided if the burning of Telldrasil didn’t happen.
Slyvanas makes a pack with Azshara to tell N’zoth to corrupt Anduin.
Anduin attacks UC with Greymane, war ensures, boom.
Alliance are the meanies, they so desperately crave, and everything works out just like it did.
I’m just spitballing the scenarios here, and you’re not particularly in a position to tell me to stop making things up given that a big chunk of your whole spiel up there about how lovely and pure Sylvanas is isn’t terribly rooted in anything but hopeful speculation.
If Sylvanas isn’t a new person, than becoming whole doesn’t erase what the Banshee Queen did or mean she deserves anything new. If Sylvanas IS a new person, then the person people loved is essentially gone.
I fail to see how this applies or why should I care.
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We don’t know who this “new” Slyvanas is though, lol.
Would she had done the things she did with Arthas, if she had her full soul? Would the Forsaken have loved that Slyvanas?
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Did I say something stereotypical for a paladin player? Cause there’s a Forsaken player here primarily arguing most of the same things as me.
Another thing here to consider is that Renautus quoted that undead are just inherently more selfish apparently, like their manner came from their condition rather than a response to the injustices they faced. This wasn’t terribly cemented as the objective reason for their behavior, but if we’re to assume that it is now because of this new Sylvanas soul development (which, let’s be honest, is not standard for all undead because not everyone was killed by a mourneblade)…
Then are the people who love Forsaken now just ok with learning that the reasoning behind their favorite race’s actions - which were originally billed as “terrible, but necessary,” like they weren’t afraid to get their hands dirty - was all because of an inherent racial defect rather than to overcome the situation they were in?
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This I somewhat agree, I can’t wait to hear Steve’s explanation.
I think Ren says there’s some explanation in the Fairytale book.
If Slyvanas’ soul had not been split in this new Shadowlands Lore. Say “soul splitting” wasn’t a cannon thing.
- Would you want Slyvanas to have a redemption arc? Why or why not?
- What redeems her for Stormgrade and Telldrasil?
If Slyvanas’ soul has been shattered. Soul Shattering IS cannon, do you really think this does Slyvanas’ character justice?
- It wasn’t HER CHOICE to attack Telldrasil, she “wasn’t thinking clearly!”
- Her soul had been shattered, poor her!
Is this the narrative you want for her?
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Considering the poor-thought out structure of BfA and the horrible implications both outcomes have, I’d rather have the one that doesn’t kill off one of the most iconic characters.
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Let me (add) ask a different question.
Why would - Slyvanas - even want a redemption?
Same reason most characters in fiction do in this circumstance. Undo their mistake in helping Antagonist man.
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But you weren’t right about Sylvanas’ manipulation and free will until perhaps the latest retcon with soul-splitting at best. That’s more like “even a broken clock is right twice a day”.
Note that when Sylvanas supposedly still had her soul split, she still hesitated to use Kingsmourne on Anduin in Torghast and got riled up when Anduin correctly figured out her intentions with him, so she still has agency.