The BM pet is absolutely extremely powerful. Most of BM’s damage is from the pet. Pet-based mechanics are built into the toolkit in the form of Kill Command and Barbed Shot. Classic didn’t have that at all, and BC only had Kill Command which was pretty uninteresting at the time.
Choice of pets does matter, in fact. The spec and family make a big utility difference. If they made certain specs and certain rare pets automatically better then it would remove all choice and everyone would just use the same pet. I’m actually seeing this happen on Classic where pretty much every Hunter I’m seeing is either using Broken Tooth, Humar, or the Swamp Jaguar because they are the best choices by default. There has to be a balance between cosmetic and practical choice when it comes to pets.
This is such an important point to make. Floplag and Nellezhar seem to think that we are assuming they want Hunters to effectively revert to the classic state in 9.0. We know no one here wants that. The problem is we are wary of your suggestions as to what it should take from Classic. Getting back lost utilities like Distracting Shot would feel like the class getting better. Getting back lost grievances like ammo and the minimum range would feel worse.
And being there have been exact comparisons to the vagueness of what is being asked here, to blunders in design (both class and systems) in the rpast directly as a result of suggestions.
You create a thread that is vague in what is being asked for, and it leaves for assumptions, and quite possibly, the wrong message.
Of course, the playerbase is looking for an unpruning. It’s been said for years, and recently answered by Ion himself, that it’s something they have taken too far.
[quote=“Bepples-barthilas, post:122, topic:302977”]
This seems extremely misinformed.
( just go play BM hunter on classic as a Night elf shadowmeld behind a tree and send your pet after a player without using any ability.) Retail pets are not powerful there more of a extension of yourself. They require a player rotation of ability’s and arrows the pet is now the real power its the player. Also I did that I would gank people with my Broken tooth while hidden lol.
Yes true I have a max warlock as well but the Pet spec of it Demon is a big ol Spell tossing design and nothing like what a Hunter was or should be. The Pet of a hunter is the player more than the player alone it can kill players it dont require kill command from the player or Barb shoot to up dmg or anything to do its job.
Maybe I’m late saying this but the reason Bepples reacts to bad ideas the way he does after seeing the Survival Hunter rework in Legion is exactly the same reason why I rail against people who make terrible suggestions for the Arcane Mage spec like giving it the Survival Hunter treatment and turning it into a melee spec or the laundry list of terrible design choices Blizzard made for Arcane in BfA that destroyed the flow of the spec (none of which actually improved it in any way shape or form).
Arcane Missiles in BfA no longer being a proc only spell with 3 stacks maximum is the supreme example anyone can give of a terrible idea that existed in Classic being brought back in to the live game when it was removed 10+ years ago for a reason, don’t go and make the same mistake yet again for the Hunter class, people who mained Survival and loved Survival like Bepples to this day have still yet to settle on a main spec since they lost what they loved so much (and this is coming from a guy who enjoyed playing Survival in Legion yet sees that it was a mistake to implement).
Bepples is completely correct when he says that bad ideas deserve no respect or compromise whatsoever, they are terrible ideas that need to be done away with and shunned forever (like turning ranged specs in to melee specs or bringing back the dead zone in a game where Havoc Demon Hunters and Windwalker Monks exist) because they only serve to harm and not to enhance.
Ya a good bit of stuff from classic should be left in classic like Dead space and needing to roll on melee gear and so on using weapons purely as stats for the bow was a Great quality of life for hunters.
But one thing that never should have happened was Pet equaling to the point now where they are merely a cosmetic thing. A non BM pet tame has the exact ability’s of a BM pet minus a spirit beast the default for all Retail BM hunters.
Having to feed your pet for 120% of its dmg output and having to hunt down camp that Rare pet for a few more points in crit or Attack speed made a hunter what it was. Made the class more immersive than any other honestly they could have evolved the game and made the pet class still be what it should but instead they turned its dmg into the players ability’s casted with a few minor difference in numbers.
You can blame the addition of Lone Wolf in WoD for that one; why have a pet there when you could just roll the damage and utility in to the Hunter itself? That’s Lone Wolf in WoD.
Lone Wolf also exposed the fact that pets in World of Warcraft regardless of class are merely glorified dots with no direct downtime and a couple of special effects in the same way that Corruption in PvP is a DoT with no direct downtime with secondary effects.
I agree non BM pets the basic ones should do minimal dot dmg like a IMP for warlock. And MM dps spec and Survival even should have the option to Cancle pet and get Lone wolf Raw stats.
But for the BM spec u should have access to elite pets with unique ability’s and dmg output. Player playstyle should be 100% empowering healing supporting the pet with minimal as if Dots dps output on the target.
It’s honestly infuriating when Hunter pets auto-attacking you are the majority of their damage in PvP considering they have diminishing returns on all non-snare CC, it’s unpeelable damage.
its the Design of the Class the pet being on u meleeing with auto attack is as if a Warrior was on your with his weapon smashing you. Trick is making the player itselfs dmg a minor level of output that directly supports the pet as the Warrior has Enrage and snare and god knows what the Hunter uses ability’s to activate on the pet.
I don’t think so. Given his post history, he rails against almost anything he disagrees with. For him it’s black and white with no gray. Then there comes the fact that he tries to pass of what he gets from other people as first hand knowledge. I really do wish that he were more helpful, but read his posts objectively.
The Design as a real BM Pet class gives a amazing option for a mobility and pet as your primary asset. It is fun and immersive and gives a good option in the game for a class play style we got a Fully Dot spec to chose with warlocks and we used to have a Fully pet output spec for hunters and if you wanted hands on in the fight you chose a melee or Caster spec.
It’s not his view point I have a problem with. It’s how he treats this as an argument and not a DISCUSSION. He’s offers nothing to the conversation except insults and youtube videos.
Be like Ghorak, you can disagree, and be respectful. Bepples hasn’t figured that out yet.
Yeah some things from classic wouldn’t be healthy for the game, i can agree with that. Some things can be good for the game too. Nothings wrong with feeding your pet to increase damage, or giving pets unique skils based on what animals they are. It’d be nice to you… you know HUNT those animals down.
Im going to object to this one, Lone Wolf has a place in the hunter arsenal, specifically for MM whose fantasy is the archer and has nothing to do with a pet.
I’m enjoying Classic hunter so far. One thing I would not want to go back to is pet skill ranks. If I tame a pet that knows Bite, why doesn’t that skill level with the pet? I don’t get why I need to stable my pet, and go tame another pet that knows a higher rank of Bite just to teach that to my original pet.