They went when the minimum range went. Instead of just lowering the cost of PvP Melee Weapons for Hunters, they just did away with them in MoP.
Not too much else to add from Classic/Vanilla, quivers being on the backs for Bows and Crossbows again, but only aesthetically, Aspect of the Cheetah/Pack and Aspect of the Beast making the Hunter and the Pet untrackable is about it.
Earlier in the thread someone mentioned Wing Clip being removed currently. I think that for sure would need to come back. I have my few things i’d like to see but what I want, and what would get me to at least try retail are two separate things. I realize people all don’t enjoy the same things as I do. As was made clear in this thread.
Baseline for SV in Retail. The other two Specs are Ranged only and use a better Concussive Shot than found on Classic. No matter how much people want to pretend it’s some hybrid, SV is Melee and it’s the only viable Melee we have as a Hunter.
Yeah, that sounds rough.
Hopefully we see some changes at Blizzcon.
This is truth… and no i dont want that or even the melee weapons. But you are missing the point…
The point is that im willing to deal with that, for the other stuff im gaining.
I hope this is taken into account and many of the things they have taken away are return as we move forward.
I wouldn’t agree with this I’m afraid.
Fair enough. You liked the Vanilla/TBC approach more. WotLK still partially catered towards it, though you could clearly see at the time that we were moving away from the old concepts.
Personally, I very much liked what Cata brought to the table. It was by no means perfect.
But to start with, we got a resource that actually fit the class.
Cata also gave those of us who wanted, the feel of actually specializing in a particular fantasy that in itself, catered towards the general class fantasy.
The big downside with the new talent/spec design?
Less freedom to choose whatever you want from wherever you want.
The big upside?
A higher chance to find a style which you actually liked. Simply because there were now more of them.
Technically yes, prior to Cata, there were more choices you could make in terms of raw talent picks. But in all honesty, no matter what talents you did pick, your core playstyle did not change a whole lot.
Part from the very few ability-choices that we had, your core was still the same.
Which also meant that if you did not like that core, you were out of luck.
Cata, brought in 3 core specs. Sure, they weren’t exactly mind-blowing in terms of uniqueness. But they were enough to make it feel like you were focusing on something more…specific, within the class.
I’m fairly invested in one of the…hotter…topics on the forums, that can be seen and have been for several expansions now.
That topic, is the return of the old ranged Survival spec that included for example Explosive Shot and Black Arrow.
Now, I’m not for the removal of melee Survival(the one that exists in the game today). I might not like melee-combat, but I understand that there are others who prefer that playstyle along with the other things that the spec now provides.
So, what is my suggestion/hope for how more players could get what they want without it hurting others?
A 4th spec option.
Usually, this is where many stops reading.
I believe that a 4th spec option, is the only way to get a proper version of that spec back without having to vastly change any existing specializations, which would most likely upset many players in itself, if it was to be done.
If there was one thing that I would want back the most, it would be the option to once again opt into the fighting style of the old ranged SV.
I’ve posted suggestions of my own towards what it could be designed like in order to fit the modern game.
Both on the EU forums:
As well as on this forum(US):
#[Suggestions updated] Pre-Legion/Ranged Survival
Also have a post on MMOC.
Over time, these have generated some great feedback. And I’ve always love to see what others who liked that spec, want back the most.
Sure, that spec wasn’t for everybody. But that’s also the beauty of focused specializations. If we have several of them that does have unique identities, the chance that you will find something you like, will increase.
As long as we can remain mobile with focus I’m ok with it…when it first came out it immobilized us in short order and was a disaster for kiters
It wasn’t designed perfectly no. There were several issues with it.
No surprise really as it is likely to happen when completely new systems are brought into a class.
The fact that we’ve seen so many issues with the class since then as well, is for the very same reason really.
Such vast changes that have been implemented across several expansions, it will always cause further problems that has to be dealt with.
Sure, the specs we have today, aren’t perfect either. Far from it.
But no matter what is done to the class, as long as they continue with these large changes, we will never get to a state where it becomes more about fine-tuning what quirks that might exist in the current form.
As an example, we had the changes going from WoD to Legion.
Then, despite that the general design philosophy remained mostly the same between Legion and BfA, we still had changes done to the class that caused other problems to be brought to the surface instead of some old ones.
My biggest worry looking ahead, is that they have once again pretty much overhauled the class and we will be in the same situation all over again. With a bunch of new problems that has to be dealt with. Most of which would most likely take the majority of the new expansion to fix, if even that.
Adding in/removing things from an existing spec will always cause some problems, sure. But that’s not what I’m talking about here.
I’m talking about completely re-thinking how the class should function.
I am sorry if I helped make you feel unwanted, when it was pointed out that my new class structure would probably force you to reroll, I dropped it, the 4th spec option is much better. I DO NOT want you to have to go through seeing your favorite spec mutilated the same way I did…(RSV).
That said, it would actually be pointless to have RSV return if the play level difficulty doesn’t change…who needs a trap master if tanks can still hold off 50 mobs at once? Protecting a group from more adds than we could handle at once used to be me job……….(CC)
Havng my role removed and then my spec…well that’s a lot of D**m salt in my wounds…I left the game for a LONG time because of it.
Really well thought out dissenting opinion. Thank you. You changed some of my thinking. Don’t take things away, ADD things.
A 4th spec option would be a really interesting thing to see across the board. I did love explosive shot. With a spec, would you prefer a talent tree approach or what we still currently have?
Thanks, though you were among the least of them.
Keep in mind I have been SV since late 2006. It’s not like removing RSV didn’t make me mad, it did. It was the reaction of people to the idea that those of us who play MSV are somehow traitors or not even Hunters at all that did it.
Are you seeing this on the Test servers, or is it something I missed that the Devs have spoken about?
after playing classic for a month, i would prefer this over the current spec design.
you have barbed shot on retail that ignores armor and is a dot its pretty much the same thing and a mana sting wouldnt matter in this meta.
Sure, a description like “dull” is subjective, but the same static rotation of Auto -> Aimed -> Auto -> Multi -> Auto for all 3 specs can be justifiably described as “dull” by many. It got even worse in Burning Crusade with Steady Shot. In BFA you have a priority system and each spec has a different set of abilities. As BM (the most popular spec) you will be using Kill Command, Cobra Shot, and Barbed Shot, but not in a set order. You use them when you need to according to your cooldowns, your focus, and what’s happening in the fight.
As for pruning, it’s a mixed bag. When it comes to rotation I don’t think it’s “pruned” v.s. Vanilla. Aimed Shot still exists albeit specific to Marksmanship and Multi-Shot still exists and is share by BM and MM. Like I said each spec has a bunch of specific abilities that didn’t exist in Vanilla. It’s certainly pruned over some later expansions like MoP but not versus Vanilla. Some useful utilities really have been pruned e.g. Distracting Shot and Viper Sting but many of the removed ones are not game changers. Wing Clip is obsolete because you can use Concussive Shot in melee range and it has a 4-sec cooldown now. On the flip-side a lot of useful utilities have been added, too, such as Aspect of the Turtle and Disengage.
Galaxy brain take here. We can triple WoW subs by just making Auto Shot immobile and clippable! That’s what everyone is coming back to Classic for, right?
You should read the clickbait more carefully. Even if we take that figure at face value, it adds a caveat that the resulting sub revenue is still lower than that of the BFA launch window so this says NOTHING about the post-Cataclysm direction of Hunters. In Cata and MoP the game had more subs than in Vanilla and Hunter representation was way up so evidently people actually liked that design.
It’s not about having trouble with threat. I don’t have trouble with threat. If I pull aggro I just Feign Death. The point is Disengage is actually worthless. Even in the rare situations where it SHOULD be useful it just isn’t. In WotLK it was changed to a backwards leap which is so much more practical and flavourful and has become a staple of the class.
And my point is that classic is not the iteration to use as a role model. At least look at WotLK, which is pretty much the same foundational design with a bunch of stuff added on top to fix everything Classic missed.
Modern Hunters have severe issues but it’s not as stripped down as you are portraying.
It isn’t, though, because classic players are very purist and basically are against modern WoW by principle, so they’ll just end up pissing off people who play modern WoW while the classic players continue to stick to classic. And, like I said earlier, Hunter representation was way up in Cata, MoP, and WoD. When you see threads asking what iteration of people’s spec they liked the most, the most common answers are WotLK and MoP. Pretending that all the classic hype is due to the class design, especially when it comes to Hunters, is pretty delusional.
It’s not a dichotomy. There does not have to be a trade. They do not have to sacrifice good aspects of modern Hunter design. They can just bring back some of the pruned abilities we missed and leave it at that. Bringing back a minimum range alone will make it a WORSE overall experience no matter what else they add.
They could also add a mechanic that requires us to do a 360 degree spin after every shot for maximum damage. That would be a skill cap. Doesn’t make it not terrible. You can’t just defend any old crappy mechanic with “skill cap!”. Minimum range diluted the identity of the class, required us to take melee weapons causing a myriad of loot issues, and made the class weaker, all to reinforce a playstyle principle (“try to keep out of melee”) that exists regardless. There are skill caps in other areas of the game. For example, the modern iteration of Beast Mastery has a strong cooldown management factor that doesn’t really exist in Classic.
Actually Cataclysm made it much better. Going to focus and a 1.0 sec GCD alone were game changers. The class is now far more dynamic and versatile. You’re just clinging to obsolete mechanics and giving them artificial value when they really don’t provide anything.
We are not a melee class. Adding melee back to every spec would make the class much worse, unless you think being able to do almost no damage during a required raid stack or whatever is somehow a thrilling experience that will triple the number of people playing Hunter.
You can get Aspect of the Chameleon right now from a vendor (which is a pretty Classic-esque way of obtaining an ability when you think about it) but for some reason it’s a cooldown instead of a permanent buff. I guess the existence of Camouflage kind of limits the usefulness of being untrackable.
Why? Once again, Wing Clip is functionally useless due to the current iteration of Concussive Shot as well as Disengage and Hi-Explosive Trap.
It does not make the pet untrackable, it has a CD and it is limited in duration. It is the single worst change the Class has have been given. Making it account wide doesn’t even make it worth 1 gold, much less 50.
Didn’t know this but given it was added in Legion of all expansions this doesn’t surprise me at all; the same expansion that straight-up forgot to add a Dire Frenzy bonus to our T19 set and also made Camouflage a talent for MM and SV but not BM.
It sucks but it really isn’t that bad.
Ignoring melee stuff, I would say the worst change made to the class would be re-upping the GCD to 1.5 seconds in Legion, along with Legion’s haphazard utility pruning and BFA’s addition of cooldowns to the GCD.
It is that bad. It’s close to their ignoring feedback on the Class.
Both have been more beneficial to me as it made it easier for me (someone with dexterity issues) to play. I might not like the over-pruning, but they also made it so that I can play at a better level than I have in years.
If you’re taking the 200% increae of subs at face value like you said, if your read the article it comapred it to BFA’S launch revenue. What did BFA have that classic didn’t? An actual game to purchase.
Yes the best bet for Blizzard is to get Classic people to TRY retail. There are alot more revenue streams that exist in retail, rather than just a sub number.
As far as hunter opinion is concerned I told you we have to agrer to disagree. Youre not adding anything to the conversation, yourr just being rude.
Galaxy brain- I never said stagnate shooting led to an increase of subs. No one thinks your funny cute or clever. Go plug your youtube videos more. Kthnx
<3
Honestly, what we currently have.
Sure, the current design adds a restriction for you to only focus on one spec/fantasy at a time.
But as for making specific choices, we actually have more freedom now compared to in the past.
I also like being able to further build towards the fantasy/playstyle that I like, within a chosen spec or fighting style.
I’m not overly thrilled that so many talents available to us today are very stand-alone and have no real ties to your core spec.
You can see that if you check the talent section in my own suggestion posts. There, all talents either build towards the intended fantasy of the spec or for anyone who want’s the feel of interacting somewhat more with their pet, they can also do that.
People are so quick these days to say that pet’s should be entirely optional for most specs. Pets are horrible and the pet AI is garbage etc. etc.
The thing is, making pets optional, wouldn’t solve the issues with them. It’s the equivalent of sweeping it under the rug and hoping that few enough people care about pets for it to matter anyway.
Neither.
It’s just me that have worries due to the extensive amount of changes we have gone through with pretty much every single expansion as of late.
My hope is that they will stop trying to reinvent it all and focus on improving what is already there. Based on feedback as well. Not just their own ideas.
A general design approach that I do like.
I would agree.
My hope is that we can get some extra situational abilities back to the entire class.
Such as
Distracting Shot, preferably you could combine this with Misdirection to essentially misdirect a taunt to for example a tank.
Tranquilizing Shot back.
I want the offensive pet dispells removed/replaced by defensive dispells that your pet can cast on a friendly unit instead.
Eyes of the Beast. Not always that useful, but ALWAYS that fun!
And some other stuff…
I would agree. There are so many ways to use it now.
Agreed.
But reinventing the design again is not the answer.
We should start improving instead of scrapping. And yes, some stuff should flat out be removed. But I’m talking more about the general approach to design philosophies.
Yep.
Like Bepples said, imagine a boss fight where the strategy is to stack up with the boss while dealing damage…
Technically yes. It does add a skill cap.
But what is the actual upside of having such a skill cap? What useful advantage would you get?
Added skill caps should provide us with bigger advantages. Otherwise, it isn’t really useful to have them.
Removal of ranged SV!?!
I just had to…