yes, it is more than possible to win hangar after the first go. but do people try? a big no. = loss after first minute
All the epics end fast except WG. That’s the only one with any justification for bailing because being in a losing attacking side with 24 vehicles swinging around the map for 30 minutes is just terrible .
one issue though is if players are forced to stay in a bg they dont want they get toxic, really, really toxic. they wont pvp or help try to win, they will instead direct all their effort at making everyone else as miserable as them.
think that isn’t you? wait until you have been trained, tbagged, and flagplanted multiple times in a bg all while your teammates are fighting in chat and all you really wanted was just 1 more win to cap. there is a point everyone tilts. afking out and then being forced to chill out for 15 minutes is by far the best option as it accepts humans for what they are, it doesn’t punish them for not living up to an ideal.
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As long as it’s account wide, I agree. 15 minutes is fine.
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Not really, if you get stuck in a losing AV turtle (mostly happens when playing an Alliance character) those games can sometimes go for almost an hour. Ashran losses can be pretty long as well, especially if the losing team “insists” on defending their mage rather than just accepting the loss.
For epic bgs the best thing for a team to do when faced with a 1-sided loss is to simply give up and stop “resisting” the enemy team altogether, so they win fast (saves the most time) and everyone can get on with their day.
If the pugs you are grouped with “insist” on dragging out the loss with a turtle or other similar stall tactic? Yes, it is usually better to just leave those groups.
Most little bgs rarely go longer than ~10 minutes (win or lose), so whether or not someone leaves those doesn’t really matter. 1 pug leaving an Arathi Basin (for example), is hardly the end of the world.
I admit I do find it confusing that these same handful of guys spend most of their time in little bgs… but are complaining so much about this issue, doesn’t make much sense 
Like, who cares if some random dude left your Warsong Gulch or Arathi Basin match - that’s hardly a “serious” matter.
I sometimes see up to 10-15 players leave from a team (depending on the map), but I don’t really have an issue with it - I just chalk it up to a bad team, that’s all. I’m certainly not making forum threads about it, it’s fairly normal player behavior to not want to deal with bad players.
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But atleast you can do PvP with other players in the loss…24 vehicles in WG out of 40 players means that there is no PvP… just get squashed like road kill under a hail of vehicle damage
I don’t ever leave bgs because my team is losing.
There have been a couple of times where I’ve been disconnected because of random power/internet issues. I think the EOTS brawl also DCed me a few times when I dropped down from the sky.
It’s all a video game so nothing is “serious”, but it’s less fun when your team is at a noticeable disadvantage because 10%+ of the team is missing.
It’s also not fun to join in-progress, losing bgs because some players can’t handle losing and they don’t care if they waste someone else’s time in the queue.
This still impacts fewer people than deserters do. This argument is one the two regular “AFK’ing is fine” posters use, but they haven’t actually responded to this.
Yes, agree, if the 15 minutes was an actual timeout. We have several posters who say they just cycle through their alts - that is not a timeout.
This is not isolated to epic battlegrounds. “Just lose fast” has always been and will always be a stupid, degenerate behaviour.
1 person of a 10 man team is 10% of a team. 1 person of 40 is 2.5%. What is the bigger issue? And it’s not that one person occasionally bows out that is the problem. It is that it is now becoming the norm for people to bail at the first sign of any competition.
Exactly, it’s a video game and not serious - so insisting on “harsh” punishments for casual content like a random bg doesn’t even make sense (logically).
Last time I checked, leaving a group of bad players is not against the TOS. Selling gold for real money? Hacking someone else’s account? Yes, those are “serious” offense deserving of a “serious” punishment. Someone left a random bg? No one cares.
The current penalty is fine as it is, and there’s probably a reason the devs have left it unchanged. If I had to guess, their interest is in maintaining good participation rates and keeping the “/time played” metric up. I doubt they care much about some random pug leaving Bynir’s WSG match.
A harsher penalty would negatively affect these two things… among all the other “unintended” side-effects such as an increase in toxicity, afking inside bgs (even more than we have now 
), “throwing” bgs to speed up the loss, trolling, etc. Seems like a lot of you guys forget that human nature is a thing.
And you are free to go play RBG’s, make a premade, or do arena if you want teammates that “never” leave 
You can’t control the behavior of random strangers… if they leave they leave, if they afk they afk, if they PvP on roads they PvP on roads, and so on. They are free to do as they wish - it is their sub and play-time. Your opinion (whether you think it’s “selfish” or whatever) of what they do with their play-time is pretty irrelevant.
You chose to play bgs via a random matchmaking system, and yes, sometimes players leave (for whatever reason) and the matchmaking system has to replace them. It’s no different than any other random matchmaking system like LFR or LFD. Are we going to talk about stacking, “harsher” debuffs for LFR now too?
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My favourite part is him asking if we are going to talk about a “harsher LFD penalty” when by default it is already harsher by being double the duration of the battleground deserter
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I’m generally against harsher penalties and don’t do any of those things. I just don’t think people are motivated much by punishment, and I’m not even sure I want video games to attempt it.
There are so many different groups of PvPers that I’m not sure any design could motivate us all.
I do wish that Blizzard would test run different ideas and talk about their results though. A two week rotation of different designs would at least allow Blizzard to understand the problems better.
Is there a way to find out how many BGs we’ve left? Comparing that against wins/losses would be neat.
Makes sense to make it account wide.
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It does make sense.
Keep leaving matches and screwing your team over, get punished. Doesn’t matter if it is casual content, you are intentionally griefing your team by leaving matches. Dont want to be punished? Don’t be a (insert overtly offensive word here).
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People in general aren’t motivated by punishment. It is to serve as a deterrent to prevent an undesired action.
I can’t remember his name but there was a dwarf hunter who admitted he is one of these frequent deserters who cycles through his alts to continue playing. He was very honest and said he does it because he can, and that he wouldn’t - or at least would think twice - if the penalty was harsher (eg. 15min and account bound).
There were a few people who also said the same, and that model follows other games and even real life. If the fine for speeding was $10, everyone would speed. $100 dollars and risk of jail prevents the majority of people from speeding.
No. This should also change so that if you abandon games it classes it as a loss in your stats.
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And speaking of that, the 30 minute dungeon deserter debuff does not stop pugs from leaving 
see: LFR (N’zoth especially)
For someone as “passionate” about the issue of people leaving groups as you, you are curiously absent from all the “M+ leavers” threads that pop up fairly frequently over in the general discussion board 
Surely you care about people having their time wasted/keys depleted by those “selfish” leavers?
I’m guessing you stay out of those because you know your nonsense “we should care about other players” arguments would quickly be shot down and you would get laughed out of the thread. Outside of this echo chamber corner of the forums, the WoW general public does not share your views - you’re living in a bubble Bynir.
Then why even bother having any deserter debuff? It’s all “harsh” anyways for players who desert.
Maybe you don’t, but others do. If nobody cared, there wouldn’t be threads about this topic.
Well, that’s your opinion. Other players feel differently.
Blizzard needs to improve their systems that deal with those problems too.
We shouldn’t let desertions grow rampant. If these deserters are also toxic AFK throwing trolls, Blizzard should do something about them.
Unfortunately, what they’re doing negatively impacts many other players who also have subs.
I can’t speak for Bynir, but I rarely post outside of the BG forums. Especially GD, it’s not relevant to my interests and I only go there once in a great while.
No, I am quite certain that GD would share the opinion that people who make a habit of abandoning key runs should receive punishment as well. Of course, you are free to go make a thread there if you think I am wrong. See how that goes.
Ignoring the fact that you have no basis for that statement, the WoW general public are largely hive-mind droolers who either can’t or won’t think for themselves. Saying “but these people would disagree with you!” doesn’t make Bynir, or anyone else, any more or less correct.
People actually read General Discussion forums?
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It’s not that people are against it but that it completely makes no sense. It also doesn’t fix anything. Why implement something that doesn’t change anything? Harsher penalities aren’t the answer 
You fix casual BGs by improving them for the community and that is how you fix Deserter. It’s not complicated.
You still have to realize that people will come and go since it’s casual BGs. They will join to test some gear and just leave. It’s casual.
Giving higher priority to frequent deserters for joining in-progress, losing games would be a decent change.
How would you fix casual BGs so players don’t desert?