Affliction Midnight PTR Feedback

I want to make it clear form the beginning, I’m not a fan of abandoning Malefic Rapture. I think it was a more solid and “modern” foundation to build a dot spec around, and managed to preserve the plate spinning gameplay that multidotting commonly entails, while avoiding putting too much power directly in the dots themselves.

Though, MR is gone, the spec rotationally plays very similarly. There’s less set up, but there’s also less of a reason to actually multidot. More on that later, but it’s especially galling that multidotting with our main spender is now a straight up dps loss. I’ve been playing warlock since late Cataclysm and I don’t think that’s ever been the case.

Regardless, I’m as committed to making this version of aff work as anyone. Now, onto Midnight Affliction and whether or not the spec is meeting the design goals stated in Alpha 1’s patch notes.

Overall, we want less conditionals to affect Affliction’s throughput to reduce setup time, increase consistency, and add clarity to when a spell should be cast.

You got it on this point. Removing Shadow’s Embrace went a long way on its own, but removing Vile Taint/Phantom Singularity, making Haunt hit really hard, and removing Darkglare’s snapshot extensions have brought the set-up time down to a satisfying level.

…we (want) the answer to the question of Soul Shard spending to be “now” most of the time, outside of pooling for Darkglare.

Another W. Soul shard economy has been fairly healthy for some time now, and only improved with the introduction of Soul Harvester and talents like Tormented Crescendo (now split into Shard Instability and Nocturnal Yield). Our elevated shard economy persists into Midnight. The raw amount of shards along with the rotational incentive to use them for Dark Harvest cooldown reduction actually feels strong and fluid. I honestly believe the DH cdr feedback loop is the best designed and most inspired part of the kit right now.

On Darkglare and Pooling and Malefic Grasp

While the answer of when to spend shards is “now” and that is a goal reached, the Darkglare portion of our rotation has been hollowed out a bit with last week’s changes. I like the 20% dot amp while DGL is active, and I like that it’s a dynamic effect. However, losing extensions on both DGL and DH makes it so there’s no time to leverage our resources and cast our new big button (Malefic Grasp) and keep our dots rolling. The DGL window is way too busy now.

To zero in on MG for a moment, as many already said, the mobility tax is unworkable with MG tied to DGL. Expecting players to turret for upwards of 30s is a death sentence in virtually every facet of combat in the game. Delves, raid, plus, pvp, whatever. This is a non-starter to be honest.

Mobility aside, again, MG tied to DGL creates a frustrating window of conflicting priorities when it should be a period of peak power. I want to spend my shards and procs to keep UA rolling, but I also want to maximize MG casts to amp the damage of those UAs. At the same time, I’ve got dots to refresh and DH to cast from all the spenders I’m using. MG is the problem, and it’s generally a problem tied to our 2min cd. I’d like to see it return to a proc and/or gain it’s own button.

While many specializations have tools to solve DoT application, DoTs do not define their moment-to-moment gameplay and shouldn’t as that is the realm of Affliction.

This sounds great. Sounds like a throwback to the good-old-days when dots were our main damage. However, what’s happened on the testing realms at this point is you end up spending your moment-to-moment gameplay simply applying dots or casting filler. In the past, your moment-to-moment was defined by amplifying the dots (or in the case of MR, capitalizing off prior application).

We currently have no means of active dot amplification outside of MG which is tied to a 2 min cd. We have little in the way of passive dot amplification either, outside of DGL and its new 20% amp…on a 2min cd.

I think this contributes to a more flat, less rewarding damage profile and a more static and passive rotation. But more than that, it’s just frankly disappointing. It doesn’t make sense to me that THE dot spec has the hardest time maintaining and spreading dots (with our aoe being a nuke btw). I hope this element of the kit is addressed and iterated on further.

…we are reducing the throughput of Unstable Affliction and removing Soul Miser and Cloying Power to highlight Seed of Corruption as Affliction’s multi-target spender. (Source)

With all due respect, this is a big mistake. A potentially ruinous mistake.

This effectively deletes aff’s multidot, council cleave potential - a hallmark of the spec in much the same way that people perceive dots. The fact that this is a deliberate change…

Seed is fine for mass aoe. I’d say you could even do more with it than what we have currently, but that’s burst stacked aoe. Do you intend for us to seed on a boss like OAB or the DH fight in MFO?

I understand and appreciate that UA could become difficult to tune in multitarget scenarios, but walling off dot cleave builds to the point that UA on other mobs is a DPS loss is excruciating. It begs the question, why bother with this spender format when Rapture already solved for this quite well?

Anyway, thanks for reading. We don’t have a ton of time left before launch, so I’m not sure how realistic it is to expect changes at this point. But I’m heartened by the fact that the devs seem incredibly responsive to feedback this testing cycle, so here’s hoping.

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Because nobody, besides you apparently, liked rapture and Aff has been the least popular spec in the game since rapture was introduced.

I envy your optimism, but many of the changes they’ve made as the beta has progressed have been for the worse. Aff was in a superb place before this latest change and I don’t see them backing down from it. They want the slow rot spec to be based around a 2minute, completely non-thematic cooldown, for some bizarre reason.

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I’m not sure where this campaign to remove DGL is coming from, but it’s not necessary. You can push for Dark Soul’s effect to return and they can just put it on DGL. You can push for another demon model, even. I’d be right there with you on that.

But the hate for that spell is misplaced currently. Clearly the issue is MG being tied to it, and losing extensions.

The issue is that aff does 0 damage outside of dark glare windows. The fact that its a lame demon is just the icing on the cake. The most recent change brought us back to BFA class design where you only do damage during cooldowns, and that was pretty widely hated at the time.

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I genuinely don’t believe the devs responsible for affliction and affliction class fantasy are reading or listening to any of this. There is no evidence to suggest they ever have.

Class fantasy went out the window years and years ago, and every single iteration or change to affliction has only resulted in more forum posts about it, but they have only doubled down on all of the things that make absolutely no sense for affliction. A demon shooting laser beams out of its eyes and somehow also magically extends your DoT duration? It’s been a sore spot for forum goers since its inception.

Give us class fantasy. “A master of shadow magic who specializes in drains and damage-over-time spells.” Someone from the dev team literally read that and and said “Nope”. MR? Stacking a single dot multiple times and only being visually represented by a number on the target? :grimacing:

Give us mult-target drains again like soul rot did. That looked rad af. It harkened to the WoW movie when Gul’dan drained all those Draenei in their cages all at once. Or when he pulled the soul out of that human. That’s bleeping affliction. Give us multi-target drain soul. Give us different types of singularities that either drain, or spread agony, afflictions, curses and corruptions. Give us visuals that ACTUALLY show the targets as they suffer. Affliction warlocks should look like a gd symphony maestro, directing the spread of their afflictions.

Instead, someone in their teams said APM is some sort of satisfier, so make them mash buttons! They won’t care they there’s this random demon that pops out and shoots lasers while they spam a button just to watch even more numbers tick down and keep track of. Stacking UA is a lazy design just the same as mashing MR was.

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Lol what? Am I in the twilight zone?

To be fair, Affliction appears to be doing 0 damage INSIDE Darkglare windows on the beta currently as well

Agreed - taking away the option to opt for a little Unstable Affliction AoE drastically wore down any goodwill they’d built by brining back UA as the spender

Unfortunately I think we’re stuck with this setup unless they’re putting in some overhaul changes this week. After the holidays it will likely just be tuning passes and the like. So come Thursday I guess we’ll see how this all shakes out.

You guys don’t seem to understand. Right now seed of corruption is a stronger st spender than UA. I am not joking.

It is a dps gain to spec aoe and spam seed in st, that’s how weak UA is.

But don’t worry, they’ll nerf seed soon enough lol.

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It has been around for a long time on the forums.

Aff’s major dps cooldown should not be “ooga booga big eye demon that shoots lasers.”

DG was originally introduced as a demonology honor talent in legion. Why tf they brought it over to being affliction-only during BFA completely escapes me.

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It would be really cool if Malefic Grasp was tied to Nightfall procs instead of being tied to Darkglare, like it was in the Alpha iteration of Midnight.

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