Afflicted is an Absolute Design Miss

Community General Discussion
123

No the guy does have a point, and my main is a paladin, none of the affixes matter to me personally, but that’s me and what I can bring to the table to take care of the affixes.

What some of us have been asking is for positive affix, something that gives you a bonus if you do X. Last week if we didn’t hard CC the 1/2 adds we would get a -100% damage and healing, what fun is that? This week there goes our haste, not fun.

Says the paladin who has zero issues with any of the first level affixes and can solo every single one of them every week.

Warriors can solo incorp, but at what cost? They have to sit on its head and do almost nothing but take out ONE incorp and waste time when another class can take 1-2 seconds to take one out entirely, most players just bite the bullet and if there is a warrior assume they won’t be doing the incorp affix.

DK’s can use death coil to heal this weeks affix, but how many are going to or even know they can? What about warriors this week? What about DK’s last week?

This week we have druids, mages, paladins and shamans being the ONLY CLASSES IN THE ENTIRE GAME that can dispel those adds, and that’s assuming players even take those talents and not just blame the healer. Every other class needs to heal them, it’s a straight up healer affix, far worse than last week and that was bad, we’ve already begun seeing posts about people being yelled at for healing the affix because they cannot dispel it.

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124

You mean every seasonal affix?

Again, these are group challenges. You only need 2 for Afflicted and 2 or 3 for Incorp. Meaning there are 3 or 2 floating group slots for classes who can’t counter the affix.

Again, this is not a personal level challenge. This is a group effort. Some classes will bring more to the table depending on the week and dungeon.

You are severely mistaken if you think only these 4 can dispel them. I suggest actually learning the affix before you continue to make a fool out of yourself.

As I shared, the data shows that the limited class utility affixes have not impacted class representation.

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And how many times have you taken a class for a specific reason only to be let down? Hunters, druids and rogues for soothe, but they refuse to use them. Lust classes who don’t want to lust, like hunters who don’t even use pets, or use the wrong spec pet.

You are taking an awfully big assumption that players are going to deal with this correctly when historically we have seen how bad that turns out, just look at explosives, every second person here was whining that healers were not doing their ‘job’ with explosives, and that is a straight up DPS affix meaning anyone with a DPS spell, which is EVERYONE, can take care of them, yet it got removed.

No, but as a paladin I think you fail to see how bad this will be for other classes who cannot deal with it. You get free access to keys, it’s a no brainer, you can heal, tank, DPS well in M+, offer a ton of utility not just for the affixes, but for your group also.

Unless you main something else and do so at a higher key level you just won’t have any idea what it’s like for a ‘Pure DPS, no utility, no way of dealing with affixes, no defenses’ type of DPS class, they are a dime a dozen, why on earth would I pick a rogue or warrior or DK (or any class that has no, or limited spells to deal with affixes) over a shaman, druid or paladin, or any other class for any of the other affixes?

Then make a list of every class and every ability that can deal with them, because I have read up and you have not listed anything, you are just spouting garbage and giving hyper specific things like DK death coil, just admit it like everyone else, you are a paladin who gets free access to keys because you are a hybrid class who can deal with anything and you have no idea what it’s like for everyone else trying to pug their way through this game,.

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126

I was the have last week. This week, it’s my turn to be the have-not. I still bring brez and cookies, though.

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What even is the point you are trying to make? If anything you are proving my point even more. It’s not the affix, it’s the players. You put a group together stacking utilities and it won’t matter if they are plain outright bad.

That’s a strawman argument. Me being a Paladin doesn’t change the facts that I presented.

Again, you are spewing nonsense when I actually disproved you with objective data.

Any class who can remove curses, poison, or diseases can counter Afflicted.

Meaning you left out every healer. Priests, Warlocks, Monks, and Evokers on top of the 4 you already mentioned.

That doesn’t even take into account those who can counter via healing. Like DKs if needed.

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My original post is meant to apply to 20+ key applications. And the group composition data is good at describing the ways that groups can totally deal with Afflicted with few dispels - no argument there, every spec belongs in keys with this affix. However, in the absence of breaking down how much of that data actually applies to pugging (taking your word for it doesn’t really cut it, fam), it does almost nothing to explain what this affix is doing to application success rates for specs that have nothing for adds, which is to say that it’s doing nothing good.

I think I remember you mentioning above that this gripe is just nothing more than confirmation bias, and that’s an easy take, but I think you’re missing the point while slinging WoGs and Cleanses around. This affix is uniquely prohibitive for people looking for a fair shot at an LFG invite, and there isn’t really anything outside of lust/hero that walls in the same way. Simple as that.

129

We raised a bunch of concerns about this affix on the PTR feedback threads, glad the spawn rate was tuned down… but sad to see the clarity of the mobs (they blend in too much with the environment) or other QoL and accessibility concerns like easier targeting, sound queues etc. didn’t get iterated on. I’d like to see some additional patch fixes to help with visual clarity if Blizz can spare a few hours to.

Other than that not sure how I feel about this affix. I think it’s fine, and probably a non-affix in a pre-made. I’ll have to see how it goes when we run my static later in the week. I ran a few teen keys this morning with full pugs and some were a tossup, but others were on their game. We got the dungeons done regardless of one or two going off. It’d probably be more deadly at the 20+ range if you miss one.

I think a lot of players are going to have a very negative reaction to this affix at the mid-range pug level where its already difficult to make or get into good groups and ensure capable players. The worst part about it is probably the individual player agency issue, where you feel like your success in the dungeon is “out of your control”. If you’re not playing a hybrid that can help out, you’re going to feel this pretty hard because you essentially need to trust your team, which is always an issue when pugging.

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130

We would have seen that through class representations. Especially since we are only on week 4 of the season with half of it having been Incorp and Afflicted.

You could also research on your own specifically for these past 2 weeks, RIO allows you to pick the affix combos.

The point you bring up about pugs vs premades I don’t think matters all that much. Regardless, I seriously doubt that the majority are pre mades. The bleeding edge keys sure, no doubt, but +20 keys do not need to be pre mades.

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No because you need to take a specific class to deal with the affixes, so it’s a class issue. Even if you were the best rogue in the world, what can you do this week? Use bandages? So why should I take a rogue if there is a paladin or shaman asking to come.

You are not even presenting all the facts, you are telling me to scroll up and read, but you are not even listing anything useful, no one yet I can see has made a list of all the class that can deal with this, and for good reason, because half of them really can’t.

No because if you scroll up you will see I did in fact mention this already, I said druids, shamans, mages and paladins can dispel and everyone else must heal, so you list a hyper specific DK death coil which I noted that not many will even know it can do that because no one ever does do that, which DK in this game ever regularly uses death coil to heal things?

Fact is, and you know it, the list this week of classes and spells that can counter afflicted is about half as much as last week.

Yeh and everyone every season has said the same thing consistently, but with the amount of complaining about certain affixes which eventually got removed and replaced with ones that less people can deal with, it means nothing.

We just had explosives removed which was an everyone affix, meaning every single class and player in the entire game had a way to deal with it, but players didn’t, and just because you would find 1-2 players in a group who did do it, it meant the data on the % of classes completing keys on explosives week was fine, but in fact it wasn’t fine.

Not only was there a mass number of complaints about explosives, Blizzard would also have the data on it to show which classes were actually doing anything with it, and they would have seen how many DPS just never dealt with it and would be able to justify why it was removed.

You think that’s not going to happen here? Blizzard will see group compositions and see who is doing all the work, and along with all the complaints make all the changes they need to ensure it’s better for all, because you of all people should know, many players around here don’t read and don’t care, the sit still like a tree trunk and blame everyone around them.

And you should also know just how easy it is to carry people and how many premades there are in M20 vs. pugs and if you bothered doing keys in that range you would also know just how hard it currently is for most players at this point in the season, there will be far and few pug groups currently doing high keys compared to premades.

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How many DKs use coil to heal things? I imagine a lot of the good ones remember using death coil to heal during Lichborne.

Ultimately, the decision to take X class over Y is based upon what you have. If you have three paladins, you might want to diversify. If you have a warrior, you likely don’t need a second one. If you have a shaman, you can easily afford bringing a rogue or DH or hunter.

One of my keys this week had an Affliction warlock and a hunter because you don’t need to be a meta slave to do keys even up to 20s. The community perception that every affix needs to be every player’s responsibility is a monster of their own creation, likely pushed by players that would refuse to help with explosive.

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133

You literally just explained in your last post that you can have all the utilities you need, but bad players will be bad and not use their utilities. Therefore, this is a player issue.

Again, you are still arguing as if these affixes are meant to be soloed by everyone personally. These are group challenges. Group formation and composition is part of the challenge. Even with the limitation the data I showed you proves you are wrong. You literally have not shared any ounce of counter data. You have, on the otherhand, demonstrated that you don’t even know the Afflicted affix.

I literally listed the classes who can help with Afflicted in addition to the ones you pointed out. I told you to scroll up because I shared representation data going back to season 2 of Shadowlands. It shows that even with these 2 Affixes making 50% of this season it has not made any negative change to who is being taken to keys.

Preists
Shamans
Monks
Paladins
Evoker
Mage
Druid
Warlock
DK

Meanwhile Raging is significantly more impactful and can only be countered by Hunters, Druids, and Rogues.

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Warlock can’t deal with afflicted but they get a pass because they could solo all of incorporeal.

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Their pet can, unless I’m mistaken.

This was huge for sure.

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Unfortunately it can’t. The only things warlock pets can do is dispel magic effects and afflicted only are cleansed by removing poison, disease, and curse effects.

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Got it thanks for the clarification

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Yup. Evokers can also deal with raging but since it is on a hefty CD unless you dispel an entire trash pull it isn’t as reliable as the other three.

In terms of incorporeal vs afflicted classes?
Classes that can do incorporeal but not Afflicted?

Warriors (at a loss of DPS), Demon Hunter, Hunter, Warlock.

Classes that can deal with Afflicted but struggle with incorporeal?

Death Knight (Same boat as warriors in dealing with Incorporeal). Rogue.

Every other class can deal with both affixes.

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No because you need a class with the utility, meaning it’s class issue first, then a player issue. Can’t be bad if you can’t even do what needs to be done.

No, just like you trying to point out what does work, I am pointing out what in fact does not work.

So aside from me pointing out the super obvious ones who can dispel this affect and how I also pointed out in general people can heal the affliced add, you added… warlock? One whole class who needs one specific pet who can do one specific thing that takes away DPS and other, almost certainly more useful utility.

That’s like asking for a hunter to swap to BM to pull out their healing pet so they can use that once per 30 second heal to heal the afflicted add, good joke mate.

Also raging is far easier to deal with than affixes that need hyper specific classes or spells to deal with them that have a negative side effect of getting your entire group killed.

Don’t deal with incorp? -100% damage and healing, you are all dead.
Don’t deal with afflicted? -100% haste you are all dead.

Raging is mostly a tank and healer affix, sure it has a specific number of classes that can deal with it, it also has a specific number of enemies that even enrage, and whilst players can’t all soothe, a tank does have defenses and all players have DPS buttons.

It’s still really an everyone affix because everyone can kill the enraged enemies before those enemies kill your tank. And everyone can manage their DPS to ensure they don’t end up bringing all enemies down to enraging all at the same time and end up killing your group.

Enraging is a far better example of a group affix that needs to be managed by the entire group instead of 7 classes and 2 1 DPS.

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I had casts of Afflicted go off during a pug 19 and we didn’t even sweat.

Enrage doesn’t kill tanks anymore because it doesn’t it increase mob damage, it kills healers/DPS when interrupts run out for the random-target casts and fixates.

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141

Which makes it a group issue, use your defenses, LOS the enemy, run, heal the person that is getting whacked, use some mitigation from the healer.

Fact is you don’t need a specific thing to deal with raging like you do with incorp and afflicted, the group can manage it themselves well enough.

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It’s a class issue when you only need 2 for Afflicted and 3 for Incorp when all of these classes can counter it?

You again ignorwd the fact the Raging is more significant and impactful that can only be countered by 3.

You left out multiple classes. You literally only listed 4. Druid, Paladin, Mage, Shamans.

You literally left out Monks, Evokers, Priests. Not just through healing it.

You clearly have no experience with this new version of Raging which become Stun/CC immune with 30% increased damage on top of Fortified.

They are not Death Mechanics. There are ways to mitigate failing the affix. They also ocurr every 45 seconds with a chance to not spawn at all. Raging is every mob on every pull.

LOL :clown_face:

You can also LOS Incorp and Afflicted. What kind of logic is that?