So it seems I am doing something wrong, but I have no idea what, I’m consistently at the bottom of DPS meters and I"ve yet to see mana go under 75% unless I was AE bombing. The casting meter seems to move at a glacial pace. This didn’t happen until I leveled 120, before that I was doing fine. I’ve gone over Icy Veins and these forums and I can’t figure out what is going on. Tonight’s shame of being outperformed by a 116 spriest was the final straw/shame and now I’m taking my shame public. Any thoughts?
Well what exactly are you doing? Spamming 4 charge arcane blasts will use mana. Are you barraging after every single cast?
First things first is check the rotation. Second thing is Arcane mage in general is in a pretty bad spot overall spec wise. I would recommend going frost if you want to see more damage numbers.
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Your doing something very wrong if your not running thru mana like water. Arcane is burn and conserve. While I agree we are not the best in the rankings currently, we can hold our own. We seem to scale hard with gear. You should be spamming AB and using missiles on proc (unless your under AP, then just ignore missile procs until AP is gone). You burn up all your mana, then invocate. Now you conserve, doing 4-6 ABs and missile procs before barraging, keeping your mana floating around 30-50% until you see your AP up again, now use it and burn all your mana. By then invocate should be close to up.
This is a very simplistic explination, floating your mana on conserve takes getting a bit of feel for it, but overall you should never be sitting with a big pile of mana.
One exception, is this weeks timewalkers. Their scaling algorithm seems borked in them. You can just sit and arcane blast the entire time and never run out of mana, but that’s just in timewalking this week. It is fun however…lol
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Yeah its like that every timewalking haha. Just stay top DPS all the time with full mana by spamming AB. Lazy timewalking is great
You guys have got to stop saying such generalised and incorrect information like “Frost is better than Arcane”; Frost wins on 2-target cleave and AoE but always loses out to an Arcane Mage who is geared correctly and knows his Equipoise rotation on single target fights such as Grong and Mekkatorque.
The more you spread this false information about how Frost reigns supreme the more it spreads and becomes accepted doctrine. People constantly ignore Arcane’s existence or bash it as a useless spec when it’s the top Mage spec for single target and priority add burst as of writing this reply.
If you don’t enjoy Arcane and wish to play Frost or Fire instead then that’s a perfectly acceptable reason, just leave it at that and move on with your day. When the mainstream acts like this towards a spec it reduces participation because people believe it is not viable (one of the reasons Arcane didn’t see a lot of use in Legion until Antorus).
Ok so Arcane wins on 2 fights, and is tied on one… but Frost is not that far behind at all when it comes to both of those. Frost wins the rest in terms of raiding in BoD, and those wins are by a fairly large margin. Secondly, in M+ frost reigns supreme by far. Only way for arcane to do any decent damage is to switch traits to a full AOE set and even then Frost still wins out without having to change a single trait.
Fact of the matter is, I love arcane and the second it gets any sort of buff I will be the first one to switch back. But you are doing the OP an injustice if you don’t inform them that as a frost mage, rotation is simpler, mechanics don’t mean crap to you, nor do you lose dps for it, your dps output for aoe vs ST is not entirely dictated by another set of azerite traits you need to farm out on gear and finally, no mana conservation at all ever.
It is not false information, check the logs based on REAL DATA from the raid, updated every week. Arcane is doing poorly, even on the mythic level (not as poor but still worse then frost). Also, less participation is good, maybe Blizz will finally look at it when no one plays the spec anymore.
You’re changing the conversation, you stated that Frost will provide better damage when the picture is not that basic at all. Like I said Arcane always wins in pure single target (both specs are immobile in single target as well so the argument about mobility is null and void here).
The only two fights in BoD where you actively disadvantage your raid for playing Arcane over Frost is King Rastakhan and Jadefire Masters, if you’re not in a guild pushing for world first then there’s no issue going Arcane for the rest of the raid if you know the fights and your spec.
Parses are also not a fully accurate representation of Frost vs Arcane on an equal footing as they don’t adjust for total numbers of parses; Frost has 56k parses while Arcane has 4k this takes each parse’s individual performance on each fight, I don’t think I need to explain why 4k Arcane parses vs 56k Frost parses isn’t a fair comparison of both specs’ abilities on each fight when individual skill is taken in to account as well as the fact that Arcane’s BiS Azerite traits for single target was changed in week 2 of the raid while Frost has received no nerfs or buffs during the current tier so far.
Your argument was based on spec niches not spec popularity. Arcane is better at single target than Frost and Fire, this is a fact.
Well not exactly, there have been many cases reported where Guilds are asking their Fire and Arcane mages to change to Frost or get cut due to low damage.
Secondly, if you are raiding as Arcane in those 4k parses, then those are people that DO know their spec and their rotation well or else they won’t be able to even heroic raid in the first place. Which means that might be an inflated stat rather then an average accross many skill fields for Arcane. While Frost is the popular spec now, with both average and superb players making up the bulk of the parse count. Along with this, even setting the raid logs to show the last week or two weeks of the raid tier, well after Arcane had their buff, you still see this issue.
Finally, you haven’t even begun to touch on M+ usage for Arcane? Nor have you talked about ease of use of Frost. Im not here to argue, so this will be my last post. I wish you luck and hope you never have to switch specs to stay having fun!
Guilds asking Mages to change to Frost for damage isn’t a stat you can rely on as they’re going off Warcraft Logs data and community opinion on the specs.
Your second point is based on subjective interpretation of the same Warcraft Logs data. Frost is also generally an easier spec to learn and play than Arcane is, Arcane usually only ever gets used en masse during times such as during Hellfire Citadel when Arcane was 50K DPS ahead of the crowd due to overpowered gear bonuses, even then people still played Frost until they got viable gear to switch to Arcane (like now).
During Antorus Arcane was the top spec or performed close to Frost during multiple fights yet many people stayed as Frost on every fight except High Command even though Arcane was the strongest spec for those fights.
Why would I touch on M+ usage for Arcane when viability alters based on what key and what lvl the key is as well as what the list of affixes that week are? But in defence of Arcane M+, King’s Rest on Fortified Sanguine is very favourable to Arcane as the dungeon fits well in to Arcane’s niche in that set of affixes yet 99% of Mages in M+ are still Frost no matter what.
EDIT: made some minor corrections. As I said, i’m rusty.
I’m rusty on Arcane but I’ll take a stab at actually answering your question instead of being unhelpful (like some other people here).
This implies that are casting Arcane Barrage way too frequently and gimping your DPS.
You should be trying to maximize the number of casts when you’re at 4 arcane charges and that should cause your mana to drop to 50% regularly before casting Barrage, unless you’re using the overpowered talent in which case you can drop to 30% before casting Barrage. Personally, my problem was always using too much mana before barraging and I think that’s most people’s beginner mistake with arcane.
Why 50% (or 30% with Overpowered)? Because that gives you enough mana to do your Burn phase properly. Your mana will recover faster than you can spend it until you’re at 4-charges. It’s a rule of thumb and with practice you’ll find out where your sweet spot is.
If my memory is correct with the mastery I had, I think I could cast Charged UP to go from 0 to 4 charges, which procs Rule of 3s giving me a free Blast and then cast 4-5 blasts and then barraging. Without Charged Up, I would cast 3 blasts to build up, and then get 2-3 at 4 charges (including the freebie from Rule of 3s). Your mileage will vary but with a bit of practice on a target dummy you can figure out your rhythm and just count in your head as you fight so you don’t have to constantly watch your mana bar.
Burn phase begins anytime you have these conditions:
- Arcane Power available
- Evocation is available or available with 10 seconds
- you’re above your mana floor (50% or 30%)
- You have 4 arcane charges
Ideally you should be doing this during Time Warp/Hero/Lust but that isn’t necessary.
The burn rotation is:
NOTE: If clear cast proc’s during Arcane Power ignore it until you’re back to conserve.
- pop Arcane Power, then arcane blast spam until you’re out of mana
- Evocate back to full mana.
- Continue Blast spamming until you’re at mana-limit again (50% or 30%) then cast Arcane Barrage and do your conserve rotation
- In the last 1.5 seconds of Arcane Power cast Presence of Mind and use it to squeeze in 1 more extra Arcane Blast. Presence of Mind is off the GCD so you can actually trigger it while casting an Arcane Blast to make your next 2 arcane blasts “instant”. If you time it right (and this would require practice), it actually allows you to get an extra arcane blast in that will benefit from the Arcane Power buff.
The basic conserve rotation is:
- Cast Arcane Blast
- When clear cast proc’s, cast Arcane Missiles
- Cast Arcane Barrage when you’re back down to your mana limit.
AOE instead of Single Target
If you’re in an AOE-heavy fight just replace Arcane Blast with Arcane Explosion in all of the above statements and you’re good. The only time you would blast in a AOE situation is if you get a Rule of Threes proc.
CD Usage
- Charged Up has a 40 second CD. Use this early and often after you barrage.
NOTE: IN A RAID, DO NOT CAST BEFORE BOSS IS PULLED. Some other classes were abusing stuff to have extra mana/resources and now your arcane charges are reset to 3 when the boss is pulled. - Arcane Power has a 90 second CD. You could use this early and do a “mini burn” (see below) and as long as it’s available in your “real” burn phase.
- Evocation has a 3 min CD. In dungeons you can probably use it on the first mob but then save it for first boss.
- Blink/Shimmer has a 15 sec CD. After a pull EAT! to recover some mana then blink/shimmer to catch up. A few seconds after every pull adds up to a lot of extra mana throughout a dungeon. Just make sure people aren’t waiting for you at the next mob.
- Arcane Orb is a 20sec CD. Early and often after every Barrage. It does the equivalent of arcane blast if you had 1.5 charges to everything it hits, but its strength is in hitting tons of targets and quickly building up your arcane charges. Talent for this only if you expect to be in AOE fights that you don’t want to get up close and ugly with mobs. Also, practice out in the world with this. You need to understand it’s limitations and how to aim it. It can get stuck on ground stuff and it can also go right through a mob (yeah!) and zip right into another far away mob pulling them into the fight (whoops!). Aim it by squaring your shoulders to where you want it to go and cast. It doesn’t cast on a target or ground spot but zips out from how your are standing.
- Presence of Mind (forgot about this originally) 1 min CD. Over the course of a long fight you could in theory use this more frequently than Arcane Power, but the risk is that if you do so, it’s not available during your burn phase. Just keep it lined up when you use Arcane power.
On a raid boss you should get at least 2 full burn phases, just after the pull and later when time warp is used. On a dungeon boss, you’ll only get 1 full burn phase
The “Mini Burn”
A Mini burn is when you have Arcane Power available but don’t have Evocation or don’t want to use it. Don’t do a “mini burn” if it will prevent you from doing a “Full Burn” later at an appropriate time. Basically, start at nearly full mana and 4 arcane charges and then pop arcane power and blast spam. Don’t burn down to 0 mana, but barrage at your normal 50/30 limit.
Azerite Traits and the Rotation
Some azerite traits will change the rotation but generally you need to be stacking 3 of the same trait before it becomes advantages to do that.
Good Luck and Have Fun!
One more thing: Arcane is not bursty. Many specs have huge burst abilities and then do very little damage outside of their burst. Arcane can do consistently high amounts of damage but not in huge bursts. Don’t compare yourself to others in quick mob fights because it’s always going to look bad. However, in long fights you should compare well.
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How is arcane not bursty…?
Burst = Tons of Damage over a few seconds. In pvp especially, this is so much damage so quickly that you overwhelm an opponent’s ability to react defensively.
Arcane does a lot of damage over a prolonged time frame. Each 4-blast arcane blast hits like a truck but those hits come slow and steady, like a truck. Even during Arcane Power whose 15 seconds may seem like a very short amount of time, but it’s a foot dragging eternity in most situations. And in pvp, your opponent will have plenty of time to react defensively to counter you.
Contrast Arcane’s Burn phase to Fire’s Combustion and the amount of damage that Fire will put out in the first 3-5 seconds will K.O. most opponents. Even Frost with needing to spam multiple abilities: Ebonbolt/GS, Flurry, Ice Lance, Comet Storm (with Freeze off the GCD to make it shatter), Orb, etc… will deliver tons of damage over much shorter period, counting from the moment Ebonbolt/GS hits.
You and others may disagree with me on this, but it’s my opinion that Arcane really doesn’t have a burst and its strength is being consistent over a long fight.
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Cool, now we’re talking about pvp I guess? What about arcane mage in pet battles?
Also arcane power lasts 10 seconds not 15. And it probably has the highest 10 second burst window of any spec in the game.
Hello, Inquiring about the statement of not use AM during burn. Both Icy Veins and Altered Time state using AM during burn phase. I’m wondering why you think it should not be used?
Don’t use missiles during AP, but use them all other times (unless the fight is going to end soon and you want to burn through mana on blasts for slightly more dps)
I corrected my original post based about Arcane Missiles. Also forgot about Presence of Mind.
Don’t use Arcane Missiles when Arcane Power is up. For the time required to cast it, it’s significantly less damage than a 4-charge Arcane Blast and you should be able to squeeze 1 maybe 2 blasts in the same time required for a fully channeled arcane missile.
You might ask, why cast Arcane Missiles at all? Because at any other point in time it’s free damage with a clearcast allowing you to also get off more arcane blasts in the long run.
You seem familiar with Icy-veins and altered time, so most of what i said may already be familiar. Those sites would be a better source than my ramblings.
The only other thing to keep in mind: If you are in a party and you personally are blasting a guy that other people are also attacking and he’s just about to die, switch to a new target. Losing a cast because your target died before your cast got off is kind of frustrating and it hurts your dps.
One important thing that I believe others have left out of their post is that during your Conserve phase if you are running the current best Azerite Trait for Arcane, “Equipoise,” you are going to want to try to stay above 70% mana to get the traits damage buff to blasts.
These may have been mentioned, but are common mistakes for new Arcane Players:
Make sure that you are using PoM at the last few seconds of AP’s duration and not at the beginning.
Make sure that you are using Evocate immediately after your Burn phase, there are times when you may get interrupted due to the nature of the encounter shortly after your Burn phase and still be at a relatively okay mana state (40% or so) in order to keep your cool downs in sync you still need to be Evocating, because if you let that slip you could find yourself in a situation where you are evocating far too close to when you are about to enter another Burn phase. This would screw up your rotation and account for a hefty dps loss.
My advice, especially with the state of Arcane and the environment of many of the BoD encounters, is to know the encounter well. This will help you with timing and knowing when to maximize your Burn/Conserve phase. For instance- I am in charge of spellstealing one of the “Gift of Wind” abilities during Conclave. It happens about 4-5 seconds into the initial pull. If I’m in the middle of my Burn phase that is a DPS loss having to interrupt it to spellsteal the Boss Buff. So I generally cast a blast or two, Charged Up, Spellsteal, Arcane Power.
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+1 to above post. Ignore reply.