People can’t interrupt Kroke’s very long, very dangerous channeled AoE to save their lives. Does MT really need to be this hard?
I’m 36/36 (or w/e the # is) in the vanilla MT. I just haven’t bothered with this one - I already slogged through it once, and this time it sounds much worse. Recycled content should be a bit easier IMO… go for nostalgia, rather than hardcore DarkSouls flexing.
“While it was difficult on release.” is part of that original quote. Usually when someone says “While this is…” they mean something is about to change. So then we get to the weasel words of “meaningful difficulty”. Toss in the fact these were stealth buffed before release and the PTR versions while challenging, we’re more lenient, you get what we have here.
Normal people assumed : “While the originals were difficult, these will be a bit more lenient while still having some bite”.
Blizzard released : “While the originals were difficult, you ain’t seen nothing yet suckers”.
Mix in the fact that some are grossly easy (VDH, Fury Warrior for example) while others are literally insane (Holy Priest RNG Granny gets 2 shot) and people are actually confused what it’s supposed to be.
see, this is a problem because imo it “Felt” a lot easier than when i did it in legion.
and there a number of factors that might add into that. better optimized gear. more experience. all of legion’s practice and a whole list of strategies vs figuring it out as you go.
and to top it all off, the number of attempts you can make are unrestricted when compared to Legion’s limited currency cost to get in and thus fewer attempts.
and yes, because gear can’t be so easily made to main stat brute force it like before, the kill window/ dps check was over tuned. perfect play only gets you so far. and it while technically doable, the margin for error was too close to a Mythic Final Raid Boss.
the resulting nerfs that they did *at least in the Guardian Mage tower, brought down that dps check to a more sane level. you can have a number of errors and still succeed with enough practice.
so, maybe its actually easier now since the number of viable tools are wider.
there are videos of lesser geared players (no time walking sets) clearing it.
certainly, every advantage makes it further easier but baseline possible without it means that the tuning is prob very close to where it should be now.
part of the problem with difficult content is limited times attempts can be made. to correct this issue so that difficulty isn’t the problem is to have it up EVERY TIME there is a Timewalking event. not just legion. that would mean it would be up every 3 weeks vs 1-2 times a year.
and for now, its the most content Shadowlands has on offer, it would make a lot of sense to extend its up time until 9.2 drops.
Can confirm. No timewalking gear when I did mine. It was painful (250+ attempts) but it’s done!
No matter how clearly you explain the motive “that class of people” will never accept/ understand it 
There is also the fact that M+ is a group activity. You dont do an M+ dungeon alone. The MT is a single player challenge that is almost entirely based around the core principle of player skill.
This figure is unproveable. The only people who know the true statistics are Blizzard and they have not yet released that figure and wouldn’t until it was closed.
A quick search indicated one or more sets of tuning done to the MT fights since that post.
Or perhaps they had the encounters weakened for the sole purpose of testing the mechanics. To ensure they worked right with all the changes that have been done to the classes since Legion. Once those tests were completed they adjusted the numbers to make them an appropriate challenge, since it’s called a mage tower challenge, not a mage tower facerolling cakewalk
Explain VDH then. Fury Warrior. Heck, explain the disparity in damage intake of Arms vs Demon Hunter.
I have addressed all those points, and I shall not regurgitate, but there are a few posts above, and mostly in the original where I explicitly pointed out the complaints, the statistic, and recent tunings.
Yes, perhaps, but because of the mixed messages as per the post, expectations were mismanaged as a result. You could be right, but that’s not really the point of the post.
That was a point made in the original post.
That’s the point of contention, and what should be clarified. Some might think it was clear, but this isn’t decided by individuals. Going by forum posts, we know that communication has not been wholly successful, and I’m merely advocating for clarification.
Not what the post is asking for…
If I have to put it in simpler terms, meaningful is subjective. Some might view meaningful as moderately challenging, some might view is as extremely challenging. Some might view meaningful as getting output in the form of rewards. To each his own. The term meaningful is this useless as a measurable metric. You seem to be more interested in being a contrarian for the sake of it.
Again, I’m pointing out what I have observed from the many threads. Even if we take your premise as correct, communication has still failed if a large number of people misread your intention. Again, you can reference learning and communication pedagogies. These concepts are literally described in behavioral psychology, but okay, your source: trust me bro.
It would seem some people neglected to read the post, or fully understand what is being advocated before going commenting. To clarify, I’m not asking for nerfs… I understand the sense of pride, and defensiveness of your achievements, but really, relax.
These days average players are what we used to call terrible players.
There’s still no miscommunication here though. They said the fights would be challenging, and they are. There’s no surprise there’s no ambiguity… that’s the end of it.
We can complain all we want about how Blizzard didn’t specify to the ninth degree about how challenging they would actually be but it’s all irrelevant at that point.
There’s no miscommunication. It’s not Blizzard’s fault players assumed things and had different expectations.
A small section of an audience is always going to misread intention, no matter how clear the communication is.
That’s what happened here. A small vocal section of the audience didn’t understand what “meaningful level of difficulty” meant.
I’ve already went through the term “meaningful”, as well as how expectations are based on historical references rather than vague, arbitrary terms, but let’s agree to disagree.
That’s actually a really good point.
I hadn’t even considered it from that perspective.
I think blizzard is more than fine with how the MT is right now. A bunch of people have completed it. What really annoys me is that when you have content like the MT it encourages some people to find “alternative” ways of doing it. Could be because they don’t have the “skills” or time to do it. It just defeats the purpose of it all.
We’ll never know how many people are getting carried through MT but knowing how quickly people are willing to pay for raid/m+ carries there are probably a handful.
And I pointed out that the statistics are unreliable. If you read my comment you will see that Blizzard is “evaluating the data regarding Mage Tower success rates” so they will certainly have a completely accurate statistic.
You talk about statistics, so consider this: Only a few hundred people posts on these forums. At most a few thousand over time. We are a very small percentage of WoW players. Basing your assumptions on what people say here isnt accurate.
Blizzard clearly said it was a Challenge. The word means that its challenging. Not easy, but difficult. They did the same thing for the green fire Warlock challenge; it was single player and intended to push players to exceed the ordinary and play the class to its very best. Before it was nerfed (and the title removed) approximately 2% of the playerbase received the “of the Black Harvest” title.
You know what; I wanna put this foot in the door.
Who here thinks the Mage Tower should be easier and HAS cleared it? I’d like the Mage Tower to be not so dependent on RNG via gear and whatnot, but apparently that’s a bit too ‘casual’ to ask.
So, yeah, who has done the Tower? Who’s done it with subpar gear? I’d like to be proven wrong so I can admit my fault and just try again as a Blood DK.
I pointed that out in the original comment in parenthesis on the same line as mentioning that statistic.
I only mention completion statistics to evaluate their design choice. Not statistics of perception, which would take some work to generate for either end. But if we were to be pedantic, this would be a large enough sample population.
I get it, but the point of contention was that it was more difficult that expected, and that expectation is not unreasonable as they are based on historical experience as detailed above. Again, I do not wish to repeat myself ad nauseum. I’m not advocating for making it easier.
For the love of god why are you not a hunter with that name???
Save yourself the aggravation, just go in as a DH, roll your face on keyboard, make sure to press space bar anytime you eat a knockback.
Laugh as you collect your set 5 pulls later.
I’ve done 5 challenges so far, guardian druid, demo lock, disc priest, holy paly, and frost mage. Guardian druid could use some minor nerfs. The other 3 were fine. I can’t say much about the rest. I tried shadow priest and it was a clusterf. Healing challenge on Holy priest was really difficult - I couldn’t even get past the first 3 waves in first phase when it first came out, but they nerfed it quite a bit already so /shrug.