As the topic probably eludes to, I thought maybe it would be an important topic and discussion as to what addons do for a vanilla experience and the pros and cons can be further discussed by you all accordingly, hopefully shedding light on this topic I think is important.
Basically I believe that there have been very advantageous advances in addons over the many years of WoW and there are a now no doubt a plethora of addons creators these days for the game than there were during vanilla. Also I believe that there are and have been more and more helpful addons that have been produced even so for vanilla WoW private servers since they have been running adding a larger list of (and I say this lightly) possibly helpful addons then were ever used back in the glory years of official retail vanilla WoW.
So my point here is this, I think that addons of varying types can pose serious advantages and can even sometimes make the game so much easier that you can essentially not be be playing the same game as your peers. I think of an example that comes to mind is as of the game ESO that came out on PC and then became available on Xbox Live. If you wanted a more fair fight in pvp you’d be better off going to play the xbox version which to my knowledge there is really no way you can allow addons that can give you advantages over someone else essentially leveling the playing field. IE; cooldown timers, flashes, etc. Also, if we are to create a more authentic feeling return of official vanilla should we not consider even what addons should be available to players as they weren’t as developed or prevalent as they now have become. I mean sure quite a lot of us used at least a few addons back then (some more than others) however I think that the idea of using them as well as the availability to these addons was not as wide spread.
So here’s the question…
Do you think addons should be limited as to the ones we had available around that time?
Or
Do you believe that addons (although we could potentially all have the choice to use them) give too much advantage and take away the balance of everyone playing the same game, and so we should severely limit what we can use?
Or
You love addons, never play PC games without them and think that the benefits to yourself are worth taking advantage of the mechanics to give you an edge against those that would rather play the game for how it was intended to be played?(they could always use them too right?)
What do you guys think? Should we all be equals or is your love for your addons too detrimental to your personal experiences that you have to have them installed or you won’t play?
Topic is still an interesting one to discuss about. I am not asking blizzard I am asking the people in this forum.
Thanks though for you’re response.
Edit: I was unaware they had made mention of it, so I meant it when I said thanks… I reread my response and thought it seemed like i may have been being short with you.
For WoW Classic I think it would be ok if they were very aggressively against addons. Last night, after downing M.Zul, my guild took a break so players could download a WeakAuras to help with M.Mythrax mechanics.
I played since release and didn’t play w/addons until BC (decursive only), then DBM and Healbot in Wotlk. I would say it is impossible to progressively raid today without them due to complexity.
When you get into the realm of what was intended. Addons are there.
Whether it was because blizz simply did not have time to include certain UI elements or they wanted to allow the community the chance to customize their gameplay they allowed addons to be made/used.
Blizz stance has always been use them or don’t use them. It’s a players choice.
They have changed the API to break functionality of automated addons like decursive and healbot.
If addons fall within blizzard guidelines for use and functionality than it should be left to the players choice.
Blizz will limit what they want to limit and leave the choice up to players. As it should be and has been since Vanilla.
Not everyone had the same connection or hardware either. Both of which can be a huge advantage.
Either use them or don’t but if you’re coming at it from the “level” playing field angle there is more that can be perceived as giving an advantage than just optional addons.
The whole rock paper shotgun class design is an advantage depending on your class. Lol.
CC is an advantage some classes have over other classes. Mages have an in combat CC that has no cooldown can be targeted to a specific target.
While hunters CC can not be used in combat, is not targeted at a target, has a cooldown, and the only way to use it in combat is to feign death (which has another CD) and lay the ice trap before a smart player attacks you.
Oh btw it sounds like some macro functionality is being broke so the nice easy one button macro hunters had for this double cooldown cc most likely won’t work either. Even more disadvantage. Lol.
No I’m not asking for that to be changed just pointing out that there are other areas that have built in advantages and optional addons are less of an advantage than some stuff that is built right in.
So if the whole premise is advantages well there’s more than just optional addons.
Blizz will limit the api to break automated addons. Leave the rest up to addon devs and players choice.
Taking away all addons though is not Vanilla. Not being able to customize your own UI will push some away.
First and foremost common knowledge has vastly improved when it comes to the creation of addons. Back when classic first came out computer programing was still a field of technology that many gamers were still trying to figure out. Fast forward over 10 years later and programing is no longer in the dark ages with very little to work with. Years of polishing and correcting old code from the 1990 has lead to the creation of superior debugging programs and coding software. This means that creating game breaking addons such as DBM and TSM are very much possible.
Secondly this is classic, honestly how many players logged in for the first time back in 2004 and said, “now how do I download an addon.” Sadly I did not get to play till the end of draenor, but something tells me most players didn’t start using addons till later. It simply wasn’t key part of the traditional in-game experience. Now days you can get kick from a raid if you so much as say “I don’t have DBM” or even ask what it is.
This being said a case can be made for addons when it comes to things such as monitoring tank threat, witch correct me if what I heard is wrong, required addons. Ultimately though, addons should be either made by blizzard, limited to a small list of less than 10 addons that are heavily monitored, or left out completely. This being said, if blizzard decides to make a “No addon” servers instead, I will most likely be found their.
Remiving all addon functionality is not Vanilla.
I could care less if they made a server that didn’t allow addons for those who choose not to use them.
Addons were a part of Vanilla and should be a part of classic. Minus the automated ones ofc.
You know one way you guys could make this happen is starting a bnet community that swears off addons.
You guys could all flock to the same server. Create addon free guilds.
That’s probably not good enough for some who want to force everyone to play exactly like them but for those who only worry about their game it could be a strong community. If the leg work is put in.
That is if it’s really about a level playing field and not just trying to ruin others experiences. Which are different than our own…
First grammar, second the addons we have today are not vanila. As I said before the issue lies in how far addons have developed since 2004. So far blizzard can choose between addons, no addons, or be very restrictive about what addons they allow. Fact is that letting any of today’s addons exist can do far more damage to the classic experience than removing them would. It simply won’t be classic if every player who knows how to code can add their own improvement to the game.
Sorry but wow is a MMO, and like most MMO’s it is a publicly sociale game. This means that anyone who wants to join a server can. Sure you can make a community of players who want to play the game the way it was meant to be played, but their will always be players who use every trick in the book to get an edge. Bots are not the only type of addons that can destroy communities. Many addons such as trade skill master can completely change the game for anyone who uses them.
Fact is that letting anyone who wants to make an addon for classic make one will destroy the original game, and blizzard does know this. During blizzcon they confirmed that addons are a gray area that they are looking into, and that it can potentially ruin the classic experience if they implement them incorrectly. Thuse they will most likely make their own addons, supervise heavily what addons are added, or decided to cut them from the game completely. Even if they were to leave the screening of addons up to the their anti-bot software, there would be too many quality of life addons that make it through. It’s about keeping the “players” themselves from breaking “no changes” and keeping them from “just trying to ruin others experiences”.
I Respect your opinion on the matter, but I strongly disagree with publicly made addons. Ultimately It is up for blizzard to decide if they think they can find a way to implement this without ruining the game for a lot of classic supporters.
It is now time for me to go to bed now and I wish you a good night!
You really don’t understand how much Blizzard has limited addons over the years. Today’s addons can barely do a fraction of what vanilla addons could do. There are zero issues with allowing addons in classic.
I would imagine that since it’s a Legion-based client, all relevant addons from Legion could (and should) work with Classic, with a few exceptions…
No oQueue (or similar addons.) Don’t need an addon like that (and the addon’s author was a jerk anyway.)
No WQGF or similar addons.
No transmog addons (as transmog won’t be active on Classic servers), but an addon that allows people to see what gear sets are available and what they look like wouldn’t hurt. Might even lead to more dungeon farming runs.
But most everything else should be fine… Threat meters will be a thing again, Damage/Healing meters, AH adons, WIM, DBM, Mailbox addons, bartender, bag addons, unit frames, raid frames, etc… All will be a thing.
They already said they’re going to be starting with the modern scripting API which has pretty much all the broken functionality from vanilla removed already and trimming out anything that’s been added that would be too good in vanilla.
I heavily used addons during vanilla (and ever since).
I think this is one of the more interesting topics about Classic, personally. We know that Blizz isn’t going to use the old 1.12 api. They’ve explained why, and I think their reasons are understandable.
However, the thing is…if you use any api other than an actual vanilla api…then you open the door for addons to be created for Classic that did not in fact ever exist during the vanilla period. Some of which could be quite game-changing.
It’s going to be interesting. For one, where does Blizz draw the line? If WQGF is no bueno, how about Weakauras? DBM? It’s not a black and white answer.
The other thing is that Blizz can’t just “outlaw” certain addons, they have to remove the functionality that allows them to work in the first place…which can end up having far-reaching and unintended effects.
My personal opinion is addons have always been part of the game the difference between vanilla addons and current ones is vanilla addons actually had more functionality then the current ones and the ones we current have give more helpful information that we didn’t have in vanilla. Take things like weak aura that addon back in early vanilla would have been way more automated then it is now, however it is very informative and helpful beyond most vanilla had.
There are certain addons that completely over ride the classic experience like group addons. I assume with the removal of LFG those addons wouldn’t work anyways but those goes against the spirit of classic and yes shouldn’t work. People taking about quest addons yes in essences takes away of some of the RPG element but not necessarily the spirit nor does it really give anyone an advantage as anything you can find in a quest helper addon you will be able to find in wowhead now.
MMO have never been equality there has always been advantages and disadvantages just by whatever class you choose, when they try to go the way of equal playing for everyone you end up with something close to what BFA is now. As long as the addon doesn’t automate the gameplay, any informational type addons isn’t so much as an advantage as this information is available publicly in one way or another.
Removing all addons is a non-starter. Breaking addons that go against the spirit of Vanilla is probably a good thing though. Such as grouping or possibly questing addons.
If only. The creator of DBM said that the patch on the demo was a bastard child of 1.12 and 7.3.5. I wouldn’t expect any addons to be working from day 1, but many should pop up during the beta once addon devs start adapting their addons (or creating new ones) to the unique Classic API.
I don’t see any addons being intentionally broken apart from the automation ones like Decursive/SmartHeal.
I’ll give you that my grammar is not the best but my point still stands.
The only thing modern coding is going to do is make addons a lot less buggy.
The function of addons remains what blizz deems acceptable.
The same as its been since Vanilla.
Go look thru pserer addon repos. You don’t see these big game changing addons that everyone seems so scared of.
You see UI mods, swing timers, ah addons and the like.
There are even addons like vque but they don’t have the popularity. Player choice.
Oh and decursive isn’t even broke on some of them or healbot.
Now with that relaxed api and all this modern knowledge of coding I would think we would basically be seeing addon bots everywhere.
Don’t get me wrong there is a lot of botting on pservers but I don’t see those types of addons being made and published.
Ofc players are going to push the envelope and try to find that edge. That is part of competition.
As long as it’s within the rules then the issue is personal choice and is not this huge advantage that unlevels the playing field. Then that makes it personal choice.
Do an objective evaluation of your gameplay. Note what needs improving and what you do well. Adjust.
If an addon providing you with info at critical moments in gameplay makes you better than so be it.
If you can accept that as your best than so be it.
Just don’t force everyone into this supposed level playing field by eliminating addons because it never has been or will be a level playing field.
I respect your opinion as well. However it’s blizz’s opinion we should be concerned with.
I don’t disagree with your points, but we aren’t getting 1.12 addon API, we’re getting a hybrid between 1.12 and 7.3.5. The vast majority of pserver addons will need to be adapted. Addons like WeakAuras could very well be implemented in Classic. That being said, it won’t be too easy.
From the author of DBM:
Yeah, not even final 7.3.5, it’s a **** show for addon authors. Then the code is bastardized between a beta build of 7.3.5 and 1.12.0 classic ui code.
TL/DR, not a single addon is gonna work without massive code overhaul.
i am for addons, as long as it is ONLY for things like quest helper. this, obviously, was integrated into wow its self and it is still used in modern wow. it has been used ever since then. and i mean the original addon. not blizzard’s integrated version.