The obvious fix for the problems with mythic + is a que. Not being a met class means you have to deal with hour of declined invites and low scores. The entire mythic + syatem is being held hostage by min max group players. Personally I want to play, but the access to the content is out of my hands and is the barrier to entry. The thought of having to get a group makes me cringe. Especially since the group may even fall apart. Please blizzard, make this feature in the game accessible to all and not just the few with the right class and score.
6 Likes
Wouldn’t solve anything. Getting in doesn’t mean anything if you can’t finish it.
11 Likes
I agree with this. Having some actual matchmaking would modernize the game. Although a good matchmaking system isn’t going to get you to higher Mythic levels, you still would need the skillset to actually make it to that and would need to know how to actually play the game. So I completely disagree with some of your premise. This would not get rid of min/max players, you’d still have to git gud.
For all the haters. You can still have elitism and matchmaking in the same game bros. I mean look at starcraft, counterstrike, LoL, Overwatch, etc. You just need a matchmaking system that actually works and takes M+ score, ilvl, ranking, etc into account when matching a group.
2 Likes
This is a terrible idea. It won’t solve what you’re trying to solve and it will introduce many other problems.
No player has ever been declined from their own key. If you’re having trouble getting invited list a key instead. If “low scores” means you’re listing and getting lower scored people applying, first of all, you should be aware that, especially at the beginning of the season, score isn’t necessarily a good measure of what someone can do. Second, be the change you want to see. You’re having trouble getting invites? Don’t turn around and list your key only to invite high scored meta classes. Invite other people having trouble and you can all fix your problems together.
No, it’s being held hostage by people experiencing learned helplessness and then being unwilling to use the tools available to make groups.
Failure is a part of progressing end game content. It is a cost of participating, for everyone.
It’s already accessible, but people have to be willing to put in the effort. This may mean utilizing a tank or healing spec to increase invite rates. It might mean doing lower keys than you want to do to help build your score up. It might mean listing your own key instead of relying on invites from others. It might mean taking a risk on inviting lower scored, non-meta classes. It might mean having dungeons fail and groups disbanding. Progressing through M+ while pugging can be a lot of work, and the people who put in the effort will see it pay off. A queue is a lazy way to try to force other people to play with you and, unless you remove the ability to group manually, will result in you waiting in queue for hours for a tank and healer masochistic enough to subject themselves to a group of randoms for a key.
9 Likes
Eh with requirements it would be perfectly fine for 2-3 range tbh.
Even if tanks and/or heals would use it, do you think that would stop there?
“We already have queues for 2-3, it’s stupid that we can’t queue as high as we want.”
“Why are you gatekeeping M+ in 4 and higher?”
“Queues are already working in 2-3, it’s time to just open it up for all keys” (this last one inevitably being voiced after +2 and +3 have been nerfed to heroic dungeon levels to make them doable for the people queuing, and possibly providing an NPC tank and healer to make sure the queues are shorter than 72 hours. )
It will never stop until people can treat the entire game as a solo RPG, with the only interaction with other people being to yell at them for being bad. There’s no reason why small sections of the game can’t be reserved for people who want a challenge and are willing to engage with it in a way that is healthy for the game mode.
5 Likes
It’s a fair point but there are longstanding problems with mythic plus that Blizz would need to address eventually and one of them is the limited slots and endless complaining people do on not getting into groups.
And they don’t understand it’s not just about the meta and similar factors either. Honestly though as well mythic plus is already treated as a joke by some people who are really skilled and at least a few are self conscious to realize their platforming doesn’t work for everybody.
I would personally like the option of que and people still forming their own groups but if u want to que u have to clear every dungeon to unlock it and time it. If people want convenience they should work for it.
I don’t see a way for Blizzard to address this. It’s a community problem. Not enough people are willing to tank and heal, and many of the ones who do aren’t willing to do it for pugs. Bad play, bad treatment, and working harder for the same rewards are all deterrents. There are only a few levers they can pull to manipulate this.
When healing and tanking are made easier, people rightfully complain that it’s not challenging enough, and others complain that the tank and healer are just mascots.
If extra rewards are provided that actually induce people to do those roles, instead of being grateful for the extra influx, people get angry and resentful that they don’t get those rewards just because of the role they prefer. Additionally, an influx of people tanking and healing who don’t really want to and don’t really do it well doesn’t fix the problem.
Some people have suggested changing the group comp to 1-4-1, but I’ve heard that isn’t feasible based on the way the game is programmed. Even if it were doable though, I’m not sure that it wouldn’t just motivate some people who are tanking and healing to decide that they can go dps now that the ratio is better, which just creates the same imbalance with a new group comp.
It’s a community issue, and the community needs to solve it, and I think the “market pressure” is the only really viable way to handle it. When people get tired enough of not getting invited as dps, some of them will switch to tank or heal.
2 Likes
the only thing a que would do is get you into a group. que times would be insane considering it would have to take into account comps for it to be viable and not allow multiple of one class in a group. then there comes the issues of things like dispels and lust. to top it all off they would still have to leave the old system in the game because at the higher end a que simply wouldnt be viable. if they did leave the system in then you would have an extreme tank and healer shortage because lets be honest why risk a random group when you can pick and choose your own groups with ease.
Honestly you would be surprised. I run 2’s and 3’s on my alts all the time and there are always gems in the rough when it comes to ivl and IO.
They could add bag goodies but if you’re done 2’s and 3’s nobody cares about comp or should except for a lust or a rez at least.
It’s been going on for so long that to be honest I don’t see the community don’t smack about anything anymore.
Mythic plus players can be perfectly content running a dungeon x50 for a minor upgrade because they feel they need it and the content they do doesn’t match it one bit. LIke do you really need that ring so you can run heroic raid and maybe half clear it and drive yourself insane for that upgrade? People who also complain about difficulty tend to complain from the high ground and most are not self conscious enough to realize “Hey, maybe I should stop complaining the 6 is too easy and go do a 10 like im supposed to”.
Unfortunately the answer for them is far too much a resounding “yes”.
/shrug
The problem: keys at 12 and over are boring.
And upgrades stop at 10.
Unable to get stronger puts a damper on things.
m+ isn’t infinitely scaling in difficulty and loot.
At this point nothing is satisfying which is fine but at least they need to acknowledge that the framework is not being built and supported for THEM. It’s for the majority of players.
Majority of the players are below the reward cap, and they can stay below the reward cap. The game isn’t built for people that need some nerfs to make it into +10s.
2 Likes
another forum thread, another appearance by yung sosari to completely miss the point of a post and call ppl bad to inflate that ego.
theyre talking about the lfg making it hard to play the game… depleting a key in still playing. sitting in lfg is not. lordy man, try reading sometime. might make ppl actually care about what you have to say.
1 Like
people have been asking for a solo queue for m+ for a long time. and while it is possible to implement one, its not going to do what u think, and it would also have to run in tandem with the current LFG system.
eeeeeeeh. its not really held hostage by those players, its held hostage by the average players who read tier lists like they’re law.
what solo queue m+ would be good for:
-fresh characters being about to jump into m+ to get started
-an alternative option for player who dont have enough time to sit in LFG for an hour for each run.
-farming gear/crests/valorstones in lower level keys
what soloqueue would be bad for:
-just about everything else.
high end players would never use it BECAUSE of the meta. meta comp exists for a reason. that reason is almost irrelevant to 99% of the player base, BUT not to the top end. metas exists for a reason. ill use the current “meta” comp for example (theres not really a defined comp yet, but these are clearly the front runners)
-Veng tank
tankiest tank. others are close-ish, but their sustain wins out. they also bring sigil of silence, sigil of chains (sometimes), sigil of misery, multiple stops/stuns, and the very important chaos brand.
-Disc healer
one of, if not the highest HPS healers in a 5 man environment atm. also brings important group utility in Fortitude, Barrier, Power Infusion, Mass Dispel, Dominate Mind (not as important this season, so far), strong tank externals, and very short strong healing CDs with mind bender and entropic rift.
Boomkin
basically the uncontested champ of mass AoE damage. a couple others can come close, but druid utility is un matched, with MotW (best buff in the game), Beam, typhoon, vortex, Nature’s Vigil (not as good anymore), incap roar.
Fire Mage
insane single target/prio target damage, while still having decent AoE. also very strong utility in blast wave, mass barrier, arcane intellect, dragon’s breath, an immunity (if needed), a cheat death
Ele Shaman
very strong burst aoe, and very decent single target. also bring very strong utility in Skyfury buff, cap totem, earth ele, earthbind totem, tremor totem, etc.
i know not ALL off those things are super important, and i missed a few, but theres a theme to all of that. they all empower eachother, and cover aspects of the comp that the rest of the group might be missing. chaos brand is 5% magaic damage, and all dps and the healer deal magic damage. arcane intellect, same concept. skyfury, same concept for mastery users, which all 3 of the DPS are. fort/motw but incredibly strong defensive buffs.
ok tangent over. the reason the LFG would still be the premier tool for m+ is because those top end groups could not do top end content with a group randomly assambled by a solo queue. what happens when u get put into a group with no lust? or no curse dispel in a dungeon that requires it?
and this would all trickle down to the lower keys, as like i said, the average players will take whatever the top players are doing as law, and follow suit. leaving the solo queue with ONLY fresh alts and the bottom barrel players. as well as make the standard LFG even more or a struggle by taking out those fodder players to the solo queue, making less groups available and less ppl applying to groups (particularly at low/entry level keys).
i do think solo queue would be good for the game. but people need to be realistic about what it means and what role it would play.
if you currently struggling to push io for w/e reason, whether its lack of invites, bad groups, skill, w/e, a solo queue will not fix that. u WILL get to run more dungeons, you WILL fail more dungeons, and you WILL have to use the standard LFG at a certain point, much lower than u might think.
preeeeeeeach.
1 Like
There already is one, you que up to get declined if you play non fothm spec/class 
1 Like
I am a non meta healer and I would never use a queue system. I get that it is harder for dps, but I don’t think this would fix anything because tanks and healers wouldn’t queue leaving just dps in queue. Plus so many groups would fail and give up.
4 Likes
youre right that it wouldnt fix anything. but not because tanks/healers wont queue. the system just doesnt work with a solo queue
This is one of those things that you think you want until you get it.
First, let’s assume that blizzard can make a matchmaking system that will adequately pair you with people appropriately skilled for a given key level.
- What do you do if you’re MMR is +6 level and you need +10 level to get myth loot? You ok just sitting there getting hero vaults until you “git gud”? This is probably the biggest social issue with this. Nobody wants to be told that they suck.
- Whose key do you use? Who’s gonna click “lead the group” knowing they’re gonna get 4x randoms that may deplete their key? That’s placing a LOT of trust in blizzard theoretical matchmaking system.
- Oh? Then how do you handle depletes? Does the key system just always toss you into a dungeon countdown and nobody risks a key?
- If no keys are at risk, what’s the penalty for just leaving? The slightest hint of trouble and it becomes much more time efficient to just drop and requeue.
- Deserter for leaving a key? But what if someone dies repeatedly because they’re not all focused and ready? What’s to stop someone from just auto-ing and pressing random buttons while they watch Netflix? Not having any skin on the game leads to this kind of abuse.
- Oh right, losing MMR. Ok, so who loses MMR? The guy who made the mistakes? Or the whole group?
You can look at the heroic dungeon queue to see what this will turn into. You don’t want that. You don’t want a system to tell you that you’re not as good as you think you are. You don’t want any number of completely unaccountable people being able to hold you hostage.
You think you do, but you don’t.
3 Likes