I will start off by saying I do not think this is a good change. What this does, is it devalues 25 man naxx (and all other p1 raids) by then giving that gear to the easier 10 man versions as soon as Ulduar comes out. It also makes 25 man naxx less desirable to run, because you can just get the same gear from 10 man naxx instead. I don’t know who asked for this change. I don’t think anyone did. I see why blizzard did it, it adds the ability to get item level 200 and 213 p1 10 man loot from their Heroic+ system. For some reason they REALLY wanted to add this Heroic+ system into the game.
However, I don’t think this change is detrimental to wrath classic if it is only applied to phase 1. If they put Ulduar 25H gear on the Ulduar 10H loot table as soon as TOC releases, this will devalue raiding to an incredible degree. Ulduar 25H is very hard, it remains hard to pug for the entirety of wrath, even in ICC gear. People who cleared Ulduar 25H while it is current deserve to have that gear remain relatively exclusive. Putting the gear that raiders grinded for onto the far easier 10 man version of Ulduar, as soon as tier 9 releases, is an absolute slap in the face to average and above average raiding guilds. The same thing can be said if they put TOC25H gear onto the TOC10H loot table. It will absolutely devalue the gear, and demoralize raiders from doing anything on 25 man mode while it is current, because they can just clear it a few months later on 10 man when it is far easier.
tl;dr: PLEASE ONLY DO THIS CHANGE FOR P1 CONTENT, IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT AT ALL.
It nerfs the difficulty of the current raid tier for 10 man guilds as well. They can run Naxx 10 for the 25 man gear then steamroll Uld 10 after a couple of weeks. I AM KRUMTOILET!!!
I really don’t care what they do, but I only really plan to 10-person raid this time around, as larger raids are simply no fun, & do not feel dynamic or engaging on an individual player level. I play to have fun in a game, not be asked to chew glass in exchange for a slightly bigger purple carrot.
As soon as Ulduar 25 came out back in the day, Naxx 25 was hardly ran by most guilds but Naxx 10 saw constant traffic until ToC.
I understand your point, but based upon history, I think this might be a good move on Blizzard’s part to get people to catch up to Ulduar because the gear difference between Naxx-10 and Ulduar-10 was so much larger than Naxx-25 to Ulduar-10.
It is important to note that this is only a ‘Catch-up’ mechanic.
We didn’t run Naxx after Uld came out, but we still ran ToC and Uld when we were clearing ICC. We didn’t do it because we felt we had to we just wanted to raid more for fun. I AM KRUMTOILET!!!
They were pretty light on the details, is it going to be the entire 10 man loot table randomly dropping from all heroics? Will the items have specific bosses they drop from? What will the drop rate be?
The answers to those could easily end up being more annoying to get those 10 man items. Imagine if the item you want only drops in VH or occulus with a low drop rate.
I don’t understand your point or how it addresses mine. Of course guilds will move on to TOC25 as soon as it comes out, and stop doing Ulduar25 until TOC25 progression is finished. But that Ulduar 25H gear that they spent months getting, is not going to all get instantly replaced by TOC gear. It takes a long time to replace everything. That edge that those guilds have going into TOC will be nerfed because other players will be able to get that same gear by pugging Ulduar 10H.
Also, some gear from old raids does in fact remain BiS.
Lastly, I dont even know how they would do this for the Ulduar tier. Because if they put Ulduar 25H gear onto Ulduar 10H, then where the hell would they put the (original) Ulduar 10 stuff? Naxx 25? Heroic+? Lol. So maybe im worried about a non-issue here.
They could always just give more loot per player in the raid for 25 man. GDKPs are still going to do 25 man to maximize the pot as well.
10 man are also a lot easier for people to organize for off nights or alts.
I feel like people are being overtly dramatic. There are a lot of benefits to that change.
It makes it a lot easier for people to catch up and in turn makes it easier for guild to find replacements that have the gear to perform.
I can understand wanting to keep the disparity to make gear feel more earned, but come on…
So your arguing it takes long to replace the ulduar 25man heroic gear and that the edge is nerfed because of people who will take an equally long time to replace their gear with 25man uld heroic gear? Sorry the logic of this is flawed. You’ll be replacing uld 25h gear while those people are replacing naxx 25 gear, you are still very much ahead to the point the 10mans actually never catch up, unless they switch to current tier 25man content and 0 people care that you have uld 25h gear months after that tier is over and it’s all sitting in your bank. With your mentality you’ll be sitting in full ICC 25man heroic gear with shadowmourne, mad about the casuals getting ToC 25man gear. This is a bit ridiculous and childish at this point. “Oh my purples that I don’t use are gonna be on other players and not exclusive to me!”….I just can’t.
You can criticize it as a bit of an elitist perspective, sure. I don’t really know how to respond to that. How does anyone respond to “lul why do you care about video game nerd” if that is really the crux of your argument here.
Why change it from original wrath? This remains the best question. A far higher % of classic players actively raid than retail players. Classic raiding is more popular than retail raiding because the gear from classic raiding is better, more exclusive. Raiding is the heart and soul of the game. I’m just apprehensive about them changing it, and increasing catch up mechanics for casuals. Wrath is ALREADY more casual friendly than TBC or classic. There is so much good badge gear, you can get tier pieces from VoA. PvP pieces have high item levels. I just think this is an unnecessary, bad change for the game.
I disagree, because they realize this would force hardcore guilds to organize 25 AND 10 clears to stack as many healers as possible with Valanyr for 25 man TOc and ICC progression. I wouldn’t count on getting Valanyr from 10 man. But blizzard is a wild card at this point.
I have a vastly different view on why people raid more on classic, it is not because the gear is exclusive. If it was GDKPs wouldn’t be as popular prompting people to simply buy the gear. Classic raiding is simply well simple. It is a lot easier to raid in classic, you can lose half your raid mid fight and still have a shot at winning, you can have underperformers and carry them thru, most dps rotations are very simple. The gear has very little to do with why more people raid in classic, it’s just easier raids. Nothing in sunwell compares to a retail mythic raid difficulty wise.
This is another reason. But the fact that mythic retail raids drop the same item level loot as you get from the vault for doing a mythic 15+, which isn’t at all hard, is a different, bigger reason why mythic raiding is so unpopular in retail.
Where are these changes? I haven’t seen a post about these. They are actually trying to do everything possible to destroy Wrath. People want to play the 3.4 version as it was. That’s it. No more changes. Dungeon Finder and everything else that was in at 3.4. What are these decisions??? This is a joke! On top of the server problems!