Would it be good to bring back utility like Paranoia, Consume Shadows, Perception, etc, where classes and even some races could more easily detect rogues / stealthed? Like DH, but on a less wallhack level. (Unless you stacked it with other stuff then it was like DH.) Even if it’s just the form of an engineering tinker that works in arena (catseye comes to mind) The ability to detect & pull rogues out is pretty much moot at this point, but better than nothing no?
I understand most people don’t care for subtle nonsense and just want to cut rogues legs, off reduce vanish to 1 charge, remove its baked in devensive components, remove duel, gut eviscerate, increase gouge’s cd to 40s & put cloak on a shared cd w/ evasion. But if we’re talking minor buffs to OTHER classes to help deal with rogues, does anyone enjoy that kind of perception flavour or is it too little too late in the games development?
What tool would you like to see your class given specifically to deal with rogue? What class did your class use to have that it no longer has that makes rogue more frustrating?
bro with the amount of things that randomly break stealth for no apparent reason the game doesn’t need anything else to destealth rogues
i’d give up gouge for a talent that gives a shield for 1% of your HP while in stealth per second, stacking up to 10, so that the slightest amount of damage won’t break stealth
People would have much less of an issue with sub rogue if invigorated shadowdust wasn’t a thing. Also if shadow blades wasn’t on thief’s bargain now that it is a much stronger cooldown.
It wouldn’t take very many changes to bring sub into line. Possibly have more of its damage in builders rather than all in spenders.
People don’t like rogues atm because their offensive and defensive cooldowns tend to always be available, You stop a dance? so what they can dance you again the next time stun DR resets.
Old sub if you stopped their 1min go, they had to wait another 1min.
I can’t agree. I’d actually suggest them removing all of the safety nets on rogue stealth like subterfuge, soothing darkness, cloaked in shadows, (idk if it’s buffed or nerfed and frankly don’t care) glimmering shadowdust & any other vanish related things i’m forgetting. But I’m not here to argue what rogue needs changed I’m wondering if there’s anything other classes feel like they’re missing to dealt with rogues.
Stealth shouldn’t be free & should always be punishable. IMO. Vanish having the safety from stealth breaking is enough of a defensive imo.
As a class we should always be running scared.
But again, that’s not what i’m wondering. And none of those things are likely to happen thanks to PvE.
Something every class has to play around. Can just as easily say sub rogue has the best tools available to setup their damage in a way where you can’t stop it without committing longer cooldowns.
I love it but it can’t exist without being broken. It’s not prep, it’s vanish, so it’s kinda op. Just free CDR baked into an ability we use relatively freely / defensively. Where when prep existed it was easily punished / forced into a low-value use. Like any other cd reset button that did nothing else other than resetting cd.
You wanna kick twice? 8 minute cd better hope you used vanish / evasion. etc. Way healthier than just vanish doing things.
But again, I wanna hear about what other classes could use.
But I agree with this. Maybe the problem so much isn’t what you could use to do something about rogues more than it doesn’t matter what you can do as they’ll just do it again.
This isn’t the place for that discussion but I’ll side with monk here. Out tools might be reduced but everyone else was too. (Obviously some changes were insane, and I think there’s a whole nuance with combat timers, CC duration, stealth cooldown, and diminishing returns that’s been lost over the years. But lets keep on topic.)
If you wanna complain that rogue is shafted create your own topic I’m trying to discuss anti-rogue stuff here.
I always liked that nelves had a stronger stealth but with how imbalanced meld is I’d like to see humans or someone else get some love. Specifically anti rogue.
Like dwarf used to be really attractive but after they made it remove magic they had to make it share cd with trinket and yeah. Just wanna see more people get more tools that aren’t simply CC bloat.
It’d be a good idea if Sap wasn’t usable on players.
And Spectral Sight + the Crystal worked like Spectral Sight does on NPCs. When you grab the crystal you can see a bright, colored outline and the nameplate of the rogue behind terrain.
LIke, hunter for example idk. Feign death used to remove combo points. What if you had a combopoint-related cooldown for dealing with rogues / ferals. Like “Roar of Sacrifice now additionally reduces combo points generated when hit by 70%” or something. (just spitballing not gonna bother thinking about specific rate of combo point reduction that would be relevant.)
I know everyone wants the burst toned donw. I"m not suggesting don’t do that. I want rogues to be in a more fair position too, ofc.
But i’m interested in seeing if there’s places classes feel like they’re lacking. or what things are gone / feel like they’ve lost impact in the face of modern rogue. In general I don’t like “nerf this” as much as “buff this.” for solutions. I’d rather see the game grow rather than just get stuffed into the current box it doesn’t quite fit inside.
I’d rather just target the source of the issue. Sub locking down all 3 targets on the opener and having the biggest burst off the rip is kinda nutty. Watching the best players struggle vs sub got a tad boring.
Being able to force trinkets with bomb and then isolate a target with duel gets old. That they have multiple goes as well just means you’re going to die in one or the other.
To be honest, I don’t mind facing sub on my sv. If they aren’t me, I can control them fairly well and shut down their burst. If they are on me, you’re on a pretty short timer. If we were to just look at my goes, every 30s, rogue has an answer. With cloak being… whatever it is now and evasion, you have a lot to burn through. FINALLY you get through all that, jk cheat death.
I agree rogue’s bloated. I think the change i threw out above like putting cloak & evasion on the same or a shared CD would do wonders tbh. Kinda like what they did with combat readiness & cloak back in the day.
or just gutting vanishes defensive utility by removing shadowdust or its multiple layers of benefits.
