I feel like people have weird expectations for the end result of this story arc.
Warcraft has an extremely simple view of right and wrong and it always has. It’s on the level of a shounen anime rather than, say, Game of Thrones. If a character is evil, they are coded very cleary to be evil if not in appearance than in manner. These characters are never framed as correct. They’re usually unambiguously evil of the world-consuming variety. Good characters are coded as good. They rarely have to stain their hands with bad acts because the universe bends over backwards to give them what they need so they can do the right thing. The PC, whatever their class or faction, is depicted as a hero the majority of the time or, at their worst, an antihero, particularly in the DH/DK quests.
The villains are never right. They usually don’t even have a point.
So, how does this apply to Sylvanas? Well, handwaving and accepting genocide and thought-policing would be tonally bizarre in this setting! We aren’t supposed to root for Sylvanas! Everything she does is framed as sinister right down to music cues and scene composition. The burning of Teldrassil was unambiguously depicted as evil. Not questionable, evil. Having her succeed and forcing the Horde players to continue serving a monster would be incongruous to the past 14 years of precedent and uncomfortable for most players!
If you’re making arguments for why Teldrassil was totally justified or getting into how genocidal we are for killing harpies/quillboar whatever, you’re already overthinking the subject and pulling at the frayed threads holding the WC universe together. This isn’t that kind of story. It’s way too dumb to handle that subject matter.
Players have been railroaded into killing villains for much less than what Sylvanas did. People were pissed off about Grom getting off the hook for free and we weren’t even forced to work for him! It’s weird to me that it’s controversial to say she’s absolutely not sticking around. People sticking up for even fictional genocide of out-groups is creepy in general, personally speaking!
Warcraft isn’t a game about war. It’s a cartoonish likeness of war. There is no consideration of troop numbers, no consequences, morality is almost always binary and serves the narrative. It’s closer to an adventure story than a war story.
If I recall correctly, Ion flat out said it is a world of greys. Not simply black and white. Whether you agree or not, that is what the designers are trying to express.
I’m not sure how this setting works if there aren’t monsters, demons or zombies to kill. That’s a problematic™ fixture of the genre. That’s just the reality of the genre, particularly since this is a video game.
However, if the setting demonstrates that you don’t have to be evil to win, a character doing something evil to win is, yes, quite bad if we’re forced to work for them.
When called out on the fact that, obviously, BFA is not morally grey and nothing Sylvanas is doing is grey, he clarified that there are morally grey elements of the story. That’s closer to the mark. This isn’t Game of Thrones. It’s a pulpy rule-of-cool power fantasy.
I’ll go right back to my point in the OP: We’ve murdered villains for less than what Sylvanas has done.
If someone does something monstrous, the PC usually punishes them. That punishment is usually death because we’re good heroes and they’re bad villains who cheated and hurt people for no reason and did wrong. In the end good is vindicated and evil is punished.
The OP is trying to espouse some notion of Good and Evil, and a binary story where evil never wins and good triumphs.
That is not the case.
Infact, Stormwind was destroyed and the king was killed pretty early in the series.
I think Warcraft is more a see-saw tale, where evil and good have their times of victory and loss. Instead of a tale where good always triumphs, as the OP states.
As far as villains always being punished for their misdeeds… AU Grom says hello.
And people were pretty miffed about that! Because it was weird. Also, that seemed like a general narrative misstep as in the end everyone was suddenly all kumbaya. It wasn’t like Grom continued to be evil and just got away with it.
Stormwind being destroyed and the king being killed was waaaaaay back in WC1 but only via retcon. In the actual WC1, orcs were from hell, not another planet, and who won depended on which campaign you finished. WC2(?) confirmed orcs won there.
Lordaeron and the rise of Arthas in WC3 is closer to what you’re talking about, as was the rise of Kerrigan in SC1. But both were coded clearly as villains with the former being taken out for his crimes and the latter conveniently losing her memories and being retconned as not in control of her actions and thus not responsible for them. And people were still miffed about that.
Clearly Blizzard writes is stories in a way that can miff fans and seem incongruent.
Even further reason why your vehement assertions about how Blizzard will write their story are incorrect.
How can you claim logic and fan outrage as a reason Blizzard will have Sylvanas removed and/or killed… knowing full well that logic and fan outrage dont seem to be high on their consideration.
Grom is an example of Blizzard doing what you say they don’t do. Fans hated it. Yes. But to say Blizzard wont do something they have done already seems like wishful thinking on your part.
The whole overthrowing the warchief thing has been done already, as well, you know.
What about Xe’ra? There were a good number of people convinced that Illidan was going to become a champion of the light. She was framed as “good” but there was also a good number of people like “Oh, hell no… I am not hearing this crap right now”.
Some characters are divisive, and I think they’re intended to be so, and I think Sylvanas is definitely one of those characters.
How Grom was framed is important, here. He was framed as a sympathetic character being wronged by a bigger villain, Gul’dan, in the 6.2 trailer. You later free him from being harassed by demons and his cry that Draenor is free is set to a triumphant musical flare and a light on the horizon.
It feels like a scene is missing, not like Grom’s evil was supposed to be justified or agreeable. It is immediately assumed by Yrel that Grom will help rebuild even though she has absolutely no reason to think this.
A resolution closer to a Sylvanas win would be Grom using the opportunity to axe-murder Yrel and commit to more draenei genocide assisted by the PC.
Edit:
What about Xe’ra? There were a good number of people convinced that Illidan was going to become a champion of the light. She was framed as “good” but there was also a good number of people like “Oh, hell no… I am not hearing this crap right now”.
This would apply if Xe’ra were coded as good, sympathetic or reasonable. In the end she was none of these things. She was a brainwashing villain that happened to be less severe than the villain we were currently facing. All Xe’ra established was that bright, light and shiny doesn’t mean good and right, not that good and right is bad and dumb.
You presume the ending with a Sylvanas win has to be a certain way.
It is always possible Sylvanas remains Warchief, waves Xalatath around, and says “Azeroth is free!”. Only to be killed by Yrel early in the next expansion. Exactly like Grom.
You seem to be casting a small net of possibilities that fit into your narrative. Blizzard could do anything - and repeatedly.
Then she loses the power struggle, just not immediately. The soul of the Horde is re-established as noble and good. That is what the gravity of the setting pulls player characters (and, often, non-player characters) toward.
This hasn’t been true since WC3 entered the franchise. To borrow from my moral relativism thread way back in the day on the old forums…
"Now with that out of the way, we can discuss why this definition serves as a cornerstone for many a conflict in the Warcraft universe and a core theme for the franchise as well ever since Warcraft 3 (the RTS game which serves, and still serves, as the key cornerstone for WoW as we know it). Why is moral relativism so paramount and objective? Because since Warcraft 3, the main players of Warcraft (ala the factions and races) come into conflict with differing viewpoints coming from differing individuals who are, by nature, fundamentally flawed.
Arthas’s ultimate decision to purge Stratholme? Righteous and merciful to his eyes and those who aided him, abhorrent and irredeemable to those who did not.
Illidan willing to become a demon to save Felwood and gain more power? Pragmatic and merciful in his view, mockery of nature to Malfurion.
Grom taking up the demon blood to defeat Cenarius? The only way to claim victory, true to the Horde’s way. To Thrall, a second betrayal of the orcish people and personal blow to friendship."
But she can very well win and remain Warchief into the next expansion and still be a hero.
Again - you presume too much.
If Yrel is bringing her crusade to Azeroth and slays the Alliance for treating with Void Elves and slays the Horde for having Orcs, she would be the villain. And if Warchief Sylvanas jumps in to the fray to buy us time against Yrel (like Grom), she would be a martyr in the story to both Factions. Not a defeated villain.
There are many avenues other than the narrow one you demand. I don’t advocate for any - but I certainly disagree with your statements about how the story is portrayed.
When Ion says it is a world of greys, and he states he considers WC 1 grey, but you see it is binary tale of Good triumphing over evil, it seems to me you are abit out of step with what the designers have done in the past, and the vastness of possibilities for the future.
I’ll grant you Stratholme as the WC universe’s crowning moment of grey morality. I wish it were repeated more often. It’s unfortunate that Arthas immediately went on to take over the Scourge and try to destroy the world to better fight space squids.
Sylvanas has more in common with the latter Arthas. Worse, her destruction of a city was done in peacetime. There was no world-ending threat to combat. Starting the war fits with Warcraft but burning Teldrassil is the point that diverges. Conquering Teldrassil and holding it hostage is dark, dark grey at best. Burning it to extinguish hope after they already surrendered is comically black.
