Just wanted to say after reading your post the Name “butt-hat chicken” is forever etched into my brain.
Would also like to commend everyone who participates in Blizzards Mythic + game. The amount of stress and “not always a fun experience” people endure seems like a big ole headache to me.
Just nice to see some players enjoying a part of the game that seems to require a lot to be good at.
Just because we took a different route then what you would have done doesn’t mean it is necessarily a bad route. We have taken the same route that we had taken a dozen times before and made time. It is all matter of perception, and I am not saying you should be force to stay if you don’t want to, I am not even saying people should be punished.
Also what about if we decided to take the other route and they decided they didn’t want to go that route? What then? we kick them we still take a hit to the key.
Did you specifically put in LFG that it was a completion run and you didn’t care about time? I feel like people don’t do this, invite overgeaerd and over-experienced people to their groups then wonder why they leave when it’s obvious the key is going to take an hour+.
No, I don’t think it is a fair policy because sometimes people just have to leave and why should they lose out the opportunity to join another group later on or their gear or their key. I can almost guarantee you don’t have young children.
Maybe you should just make another friend or two and then you wouldn’t have this problem.
There are groups that say “laid back run” - This you can assume they don’t care about timers.
There are groups that say nothing - This you can assume are trying to make the timer and if not able to at least stay for the loot.
There are groups that say “pushing” - This you can assume will leave if they can not make the timer.
If you enter a “pushing group” then bailing is not rude. If you enter a “laid back group” then bailing is very rude. If you enter one who did not define then you have to operate under the assumption that they at least want to finish.
So even though they did not specifically say “laid back” that doesn’t mean they gave you the same “ok to leave” flag as a “pushing” key.
On the other hand the people who are over-experienced who will leave should only be searching for “pushing” keys if they intend to bail when things get bad.
I mean what’s to stop someone from continuously trolling and join back to back mythic keys and leave.
Also what’s the problem with allowing us to invite someone else if someone does leave? That would solve everything.
It would create other problems. You are at the last boss in a mythic plus 15 and you have a random pug group member in there, a guild member gets on and says hey kick that guy and invite me. So no.
The problem with definitions like “laid back” is your definition is different than everyone else’s. You might be ok with joining a +10 laid back group with dps pulling 6k and the dungeon taking 2 hours, but I might not be that “laid back.”
We’ve done this for years in heroics before mythics ever came along. Not to mention raids.
Yes, I know but the impact isn’t as great in heroic dungeons since you aren’t guaranteed anything. Well anything of much value anyway.
Actually I can’t believe you said that as an argument for your case.
There is a difference between laid back and terrible.
Some laid back groups actually beat timer or at least come close.
Yes there is a terrible line across the board of all 3 group types. And YES there is a line where the player is just being hypersensitive and forcing others to pay for it. It get’s rather tricky. I fully understand the OP in wanting to punish those being hypersensitive and hurting other people.
Here’s my take on pugs. I have multiple wow accounts. Horde and alliance and in my experience pugs are a grab bag.
If you want 100% reliable teams the only way you are going to find that is by building and recruiting a group of players you play with. Pug groups will always have an element of randomness, good players, bad players who think they are good, selfish players, personality collisions and those that have an excuse for every situation never owning their Mistakes. It is what it is, even with rating tools, you are going to get what you get. It’s a real headache at times.
So ya for those that really want to push competitive keys, I’d say pugs are not the way to do it. Rather recruit and build your team. Otherwise grab a beer and understand that some pug groups are just going to suck, for a wide array of various causes.
you take your chance on a pug.m+ is meant for groups on coms.if you care so much about your io score get guildies and friends other wise you take your chance.
Question to OP and others in here who pug often. When you come across a good player that you enjoyed running with, do you add them to friends and/or have a community you invite them to? Or do you drop group and roll the dice again with randoms?
Leaver still gets the loot.
As for the OP, I think these cause more problems than they solve.
They should never impose a punishment system of any kind for leaving a group that wasn’t formed using the random dungeon/raid finder.
Random dungeons/LFR have a deserted debuff because you have no say in who is in the group.
For normal+ raids and mythic and higher dungeons you pick who you group with. If you made a poor choice, whether it’s the group you chose to join or the player you invited to your group, that is your problem and not something Blizzard needs to get involved with.
We need less micro-managing of our groups from Blizzard, not more.
If you choose to pug mythic+ or raids, you choose to accept the risk that those groups may fall apart at a moments notice. For any reason.
I do, and one of the 2 friends I mentioned I met after a successful pug. Anyhow, after reading through the comments I feel like the people who, according to them, don’t PUG are the ones most vehemently against any kind of punishment. Interestingly enough, if they in fact do not PUG, they’d be the ones least affected by it.
At the end of the day the matter is quite simple: is this a desirable behavior? There’s a big difference between a group that’s clearly not ready to complete a key, let alone time it and I tried to account for that in my solution. I’ve also made it clear that this hasn’t been the majority of my experience with leavers. Is my solution perfect? No. Does it open the possibility of abuse? Probably, but making the perfect the enemy of the good isn’t a solution either.
The punishment I proposed is just one option, and other people have made other suggestions that I think would help immensely as well such as getting rid of the key system altogether, but something should be done.
I don’t know how this is relevant but I did mention I have daughter in one of my posts. I can guarantee that you haven’t read the whole argument before answering.
Just because people don’t pug doesn’t mean they never pug nor can’t see how bad your ideas are.
Lots of things happen in RL that people can’t control and you want to punish them because you refuse to try and control what you can - the people in your groups.
Any way of “forcing” someone to stay when he doesn’t want to be there anymore is not going to solve anything. You might be able to come up with a system that forces someone to stay but you can’t force him to play well or even try, so at that point the group gains nothing from having that player staying.
We have a soft solution already implemented in game with Bwomsamdi showing up and giving you the buff so you can 4-man the dungeon now, it’s not a pefect solution ofc (and probably wont help if the tank or healer leave) but it’s something at least…
My proposed solution is that for keys below the +10 mark the key doesn’t downgrade, so you can run out and reset the dungeon, then start fresh with a full group if you choose so.
Please illuminate me on how to account for leavers in a pug scenario. As it stands, there’s nothing to indicate if a person has a history of leaving runs or not. I agree lots of things happen in RL, and that hasn’t and shouldn’t stop gaming companies to try and curb undesirable behavior.
Why would anyone do this? There’s no benefit to anyone. That’s another case of people imagining the worst possible outcome of a situation, no matter how farfetched it is.