That’s not just the communal mindset on the forums, that is exactly how it works. Yes, ideally, there would be some generally agreed upon “good reason”, but without dedicating an enormous amount of Human Resources to reviewing chat and play logs, there is no practical way to ensure that.
Besides which, even “good reasons” aren’t universal, and there would be plenty of disagreement about any actual enforcement of these reasons if Blizzard actually spent the time and money on it. And all of this for a 30 minute time out…1800 seconds.
I think it would be more beneficial to have options for “reason for removing player” listed in kick options. Kick for offline/afk, kick for disruption of gameplay, kick for inappropriate communication. These could probably be looked at closely if a player feels they had an unjustified kick.
I’m not from cali but it was the closest thing I could think of to being a large pop server with snubbers.
Yes! Great idea. Then we can track the numbers. I really don’t need to know how many times my character has died. Which Blizzard tracks. BUT I would love to know how many times a character lefts a group early in Mythic before I decided to invite them to a key.
Let’s start cleaning house! make the numbers public. Let the player base chose on all the information.
What you’re proposing is pretty much the dystopian future into which we are headed, and very little about it promising or inviting.
You are essentially lobbying for some version of a Chinese social score, where everything you do is quantified and the system is designed simply to find fault and punish.
The more restrictions or expectations you enforce through the system, the more freedoms you will ultimately take away.
People will ask for interrupts and stops to be tracked and scored, and then you will overlap kicks and lose points and you’ll feel screwed by the system, then you’ll complain and the authorities will note your dissent and you will be monitored and then when you finally lose your patience they will ban you and send someone to your house to take away your internet.
Nothing about what you are proposing will fix the core issues YOU are creating for yourself by interacting obtusely with an unforgiving system.
Things aren’t in a great way at the moment, but the answer is not to turn on each other. Figure out what your actual problem is and create a legitimate action plan to resolve it.
I have been kicked for, and I quote directly, “being a furry” simply by being a feral druid. Doing top dps for the dungeon and still being kicked in the middle of it FOR MY SPEC. That seems legitimate… I’m not going to change my spec especially if I’m performing well because other people are stigmatizing it to whatever they feel like.
That’s similar to kicking people from dungeons because they don’t like the fact that someone is a female pandaren. Or being from Quel’Thalas. So the prospect of solving the issue is… to spend money on a game that promotes abuse of a system? Interesting viewpoint, go off.
Yeah I think this is a good idea, too many people are willing to just click for the sake of it. That said, I don’t see kicks in dungeons very often at all, I just think this is a good failsafe.
In the 11 years of wow playing, it has happened at least 5 times for that exact reason. I have also been kicked from groups for being a vulpera or a worgen. I have been kicked for playing survival hunter, arcane mage, and demo lock. I have been kicked for being from Sargeras in a group full of Tichondrius players.
None of these were reasons that I consider valid, in my opinion I play above average on alt classes that I am learning and I play well above average probably in top 20% of players for my main class. If I were underperforming, a kick would be justified. If I have to go afk for an extended period of time (longer than 15 seconds) I simply leave the dungeon on my own because the timer will likely be ended by the time I want to do another dungeon.
I decline votes when people say “bad healer” or “bad tank” because it’s extremely possible that these people are learning. Decline voting for “being annoying” because someone says hello or asks a question regarding the dungeon. Any type of troll vote to kick I attempt to decline and it usually doesn’t matter because the other 3 people don’t read the reason or who is being kicked and just hit yes because they a) want to be carried, b) want to troll with their pre-made, c) hit yes because they want the pop up gone off their screen.
While I find many justifiable reasons to remove someone from my group, it leaves an extremely sour taste to new or learning players. There needs to be a serious adjustment to the system, whether it be lowering the debuff timer or giving an actual list that provides reason to the kicked player upon group removal.
Be in dungeon, doing poorly on dps because you are watching netflix and only auto shot. Be removed from group. Chat log says > You have been removed from group for: AFK.
Completely valid, and also gives the reason you were removed. In the future, maybe you won’t watch netflix while auto shotting in a dungeon.
Be in a dungeon, actively trolling and spamming in chat. Be removed from group. Chat log says: >You have been removed from group for: Inappropriate communication.
Also completely valid. Players need to see WHY they were removed from the group so they can figure out how to prevent removal in the future. The current system is actively abused by premades and trolls.
You experienced being voted out so much, that you could then took a friend to recreate such an experiment 10 more times, and to still look for an external reason so much so that you’ve come to the forums.
How do you not look internally; you’re clearly the common denomintor.
An addon that spams, probably pretty annoying if there’s a saturation of name plates + a party bubble
You’re just trolling
The other 2 DPS don’t want to have to make up for your lack of damage
You’re not entitled to anything, WoW just may not be the game for you, and that’s okay, just pick a different game.
While nobody should have this experience, once every two years is pretty infrequent and making a system to address it seems like overkill.
I am disappointed that players can abuse the system and I very rarely participate in votes unless someone has been afk or dc’d for a long time.
We know that certain players are kicking for no reason. Even if it was a dropdown or a text prompt, they would pick something inaccurate and send it. You probably wouldn’t be any the wiser for being told “bad dps” because you can’t reason with the unreasonable.
It’s a legitimate shame, and I wish it didn’t happen, but I don’t think automated overlords are any more interested in your wellbeing and would probably end up just being more avenues for abuse. Then you would need to create another feature to manage that abuse, and another, and another, until everyone was signing contracts with collateral promises and arbitration on reported incidents that locked you out until completed, etc.
My sincere recommendation is to join a smaller guild dedicated to casual play. Guildies are typically less volatile and inappropriate behavior can be reported to a guild officer who can take action on your behalf where necessary.
That’s something I hadn’t considered with my idea. Misinformation for the report would definitely cause additional confusion on the kicked players’ side. Perhaps maybe just seeing a notification in chat of what the vote to kick message was when they were removed would suffice, even if it wasn’t entirely a good reason.
I wholly agree with you that creating more automated systems would lead to more problems. I wish there were more casual guilds available for players that are learning. I know the new servers exist but I’ve definitely seen veteran players on them who like to troll and disrupt the game play of new players as well. Hopefully we can direct those who want additional help to other platforms like discords or websites that welcome casual play and new players.
A great change was recently implemented that makes guild cross-realm now, so in theory you should have all servers to choose from. There’s a community called WoW Made Easy, WME, that often advertises in LFG. Their whole schtick is being helpful and considerate of each other and I believe the do mentoring and other pro-community efforts. I don’t have a link for you but a quick search should find something useful. Perhaps that might be a good start at least.
This ^^^ I am a Veteran player and this has been absolutely ridiculous. Its almost as if you say anything in the chat and someone in the group doesn’t like it next thing you know boom! kicked, deserter de-buff and all. Blizz needs to figure out a way to combat this nonsense.
I used “bad dps” as an example that players would use, even if it wasn’t true. Also, how long someone has been playing doesn’t determine the rate at which they encounter unpleasant players.
I did a TW last night and there was a twink priest doing 5m dps. Strangely they were super fast, which I regret not investigating, but regardless, they pulled and tanked everything for the 2 seconds it lived.
Something told me that if I was a new player and asked them to “wait up” for me to reach the boss, I would have been kicked by the players being carried.
It sincerely made me question who the system is serving now.
LOL “when tanks or healers…”
Yah it was all our fault this was initiated. DPS never bailed on places they didnt want to do like ever, right?
It’s time for some of you veteran players to listen to what the newer people are saying. The vote-kick system should NOT be debuffing people and calling them a “deserter.”
They didnt abandon their group; they were involuntarily kicked. There’s a huge difference. Other players should NOT have the power to punish other players for this. If you choose to remove someone from you group, then the removal is all you should get to determine.
If you want to argue semantics about “unfair” kicks, then please, waste everyone’s time.
And if you’re so worried about getting dungeons that people dont want to do. Blizz has two ways to combat this that are super easy to implement
Allow blacklisting
Stop designing piss-poor dungeons just b/c they think its cute. We warned them about Occuuls during the Wrath beta. Did they listen? Nope. We warned them about Halls of Origination during the Cata beta (it really is a freakin mega-dungeon) …did they listen? nope. We’re warning them NOW on the PTR (and we warned them during the beta) that Darkflame Cleft is super gimmicky and Dawnbreaker was flat out buggy—did they listen? nope!
Yes, in fact, it was the fault of tanks and healers. DPS players were less likely to demand a kick after waiting 30-40 minutes or more for a dungeon, and even if they did, wouldn’t hold the group up because their replacement would most likely do the dungeon rather than queue again.
Tanks and healers had nearly instant queues, so there was really no loss if they could avoid the debuff and just requeue.
Just to be clear, bailing on a dungeon has always been fine, for all 3 roles. It’s circumventing the system’s consequence that is the problem, and what caused the fix to prevent it.
There’s no semantic argument about unfair kicks because unfair kicks don’t exist in any real way. Find a formal definition of unfair kick and then we can begin a semantic argument about it.
This is all rationalization. You can already blacklist by queuing for the specific dungeons you want and excluding the ones you don’t. If you choose to hit the random queue then you should be prepared to get a random dungeon.
No, it’s time for newer players who don’t understand what the lessons that have already been learned to pay attention to the people who were there and know firsthand what the consequence of their short sighted demands are. If your issue is just the name “deserter” then stop complaining about semantic arguments for starters, and I’m fine with renaming the debuff to “Queue locked” or “didn’t finish” if that will make you happier.
you’re ignoring how this is affecting people and i’d argue on a hell of a lot more of a point than the occulus /leave thing and you’re honestly trying to continue to sell that the system is working when every single damned day, there is a new forum post about it.
Queuing for specific dungeons when you’re after something makes sense; such as quest completion. But queuing random often has rewards that dont get offered any other way. with the 200+ dungeons in the game, asking for the sytem to allow you to NOT have 1 or 2 of them pop up isn’t a huge request. You can call it rationaliztion (i mean…honestly, someone has to rationlize this garbage fest) . Or if you really dont want to do this, then just offer the rewards for using the queing system AT ALL and dont make it random (I never understood why it HAS to be random to begin with).
Or, you can continue to stubbornly insist that people doing a leave-train on Occulus was such a bad problem that it justifies people weaponizing the kick system to harm other players. I’m still a bigger fan of them just not designing crap dungeons that a lot of people dont want to do to begin with.
