I have come into a situation with Motherlode Mythic +.
I am not super high on it. Attempting +8s.
I have had almost double digit attempts on +8 motherlode this week, all ending in failure, all with people trying to do the same thing and things going wrong.
The most common thing being huge pulls, especially that first enormous pull where you take 70% of the first hall and tank it all at once. Every tank I have seen attempt that has died, every grp I have seen go into that has wiped.
It was to the point that i was almost certain I was the problem, I looked at my skills and made sure i was CC’ing as much as I can. No change
So I wanted to ask, in what comps or those big pulls supposed to be done in, is there a point where the tank decides “this grp can handle that pull” and does it.
There is no specific comp. People need to not die from avoidable mechanics and they also need to use their interrupts and CCs. I hvn’t had a single wipe in the first “hall”. If it was just a few runs then I could maybe blame the tanks, but if you are in double digit for +8s then I would look at interrupts, deaths, and utilities.
Your gonna see some big swings in my damage in other dungeons as before the latest patch I swapped between sentinel and pack leader. Post Patch my DPS is usually the highest or second highest for the grp. I did 2.25m on first boss on my last attempt. 2.75M on second boss, and I usually outpaced the ele shammy on trash fights barring a few exceptions.
Overall Damage for the run after we finished (we did not time) was me at top damage at 1.88M.
As for utility, I intim and sometimes freezing trap the fan of knives, interrupt the poison on the rogues, interrupt the ice effect on the vendors, and I interrupt the earthshapers and alchemists. I was top on interrupts on my last attempt.
I know when to press defensive cooldowns and I am typically the last to die, I know the basics of playing my character in rough situations and I have both delve ?? mounts to prove it, zekvir earned pre nerf.
I have looked over my own gameplay as much as I can, which is why I came here to ask on this.
If there is decision making going on I wasn’t aware of I wanted to see if I could influence that, since it seems not all I can do is… well… keep trying. I just don’t know how much more I can do CC/Utility wise. And atleast now DMG has not been the problem.
Edit: to put into perspective my average damage for the PREVIOUS attempt was 2.23M but that was incomplete
Those numbers sound low for a hunter of any spec in your gear, however it’s somewhat besides the point.
Things you can do.
Bloodlust sharply.
Stop fan of knives.
Kick refreshments.
Focus any single target damage you have into the big mooks who knock people. They’re the largest source of unavoidable damage and have the most hp. Do not sacrifice AoE to do this.
Use your defensives (besides turtle) proactively, aim to keep your hp high / healing needed low, instead of using defensives to recover when you already go low.
Use your knock trap / tar trap to prevent the machinist from reaching the mech or to knock him back into the pull.
I like using horsehair more than disengage cdr from pack, if you use it with implosive to reposition mid cast, mobs that weren’t casting will run to the tank (like <5 yards anyways) and the casters will be left slightly outside, which makes it a bit easier for people to catch interrupts on large pulls. You can enrage dispel the big guys in the pull you’re talking about, also depends on your dispel comp this week with bargains since you have to save feign instead of using it to cancel casts which can feel bad during larger pulls when you’re already interrupting / stunning on cd.
A thing you can do on the third boss is when she targets you with the knockback that clears oil, if you feign it she will delay like 5 seconds and find a new target, she’ll still do the same total targets per cycle, its minor but a bit extra.
Motherlode has some weird intro pull strats though, like when key bargains are up you have time to kill the non elite packs first and then push for a big hall pull with lust and bargain. Its fine without, but if you’re pugging without constant stops in your comp you’re kind of just making a risky move to save at most 20 seconds.
In an 8 the simplest explanation is that the tank bit off more than he could chew.
A thing that commonly goes wrong in the first pull of motherlode is that the Mech Jockey runs to try to activate the mech on the left, and in doing so he pulls 2 extra casters into the pull that the group probably doesn’t have interrupts for.
There’s really no need to do pulls like that in a +8. You’ll time the key as long as you don’t wipe.
its a product of the key range + how far into the patch we are.
we are at the point in the patch where the horde of average players is currently sitting in the 7-11 bracket. there is nothing wrong with being in this clump, this is just the kind of thing that happens when you’re in it, though.
basically this clump has a mashup of a few different types of players:
-the casual, slow progression players. these people general do middling damage, dont use their CC or interupts often, if at all, and are just kind of vibing, doing their own thing.
-the stinkies. the people who THINK they are top tier players, but its everyone elses fault they cant time keys. generally they do all the same things wrong as the casuals, but will just blame everyone else for the problems. these are also usually the late FOTM rerollers. they got clapped by class X, and so they reroll to it, not knowing how it works at all, and again, blaming everyone else for their poor performance.
-then theres the role rerollers. more or less, this is always the tank. more often than not, youll have a semi-high io dps player (say 2.6-2.9k, just to throw out an arbitrary number) that is either A. not getting invites to keys, or B. blaming their tanks for their inability to time keys. so they reroll to tank thinking “ill do it myself”, while having no idea how to pull, how to control mobs, or how to rotate defensives. this is always the tank that will pull WAY too big, with no thought process as to how they will group the mobs, and no intention of cc’ing or interupting, leaving ranged mobs at 10% hp free casting so they can just go to the next pack, just blaming the healer or dps when they inevitably wipe. (based on your description, im pretty sure this is the exact person you’ve been getting)
unfortunately, as I said, this is just kind of how keys in this range work. people operate under the mentality of “gotta go fast” with no though behind how they can move fast, or why they should do something, which always ends in either a wipe, or a slower run, even though they are physically moving fast.
based on the fact that your post/question doesn’t flame or blame at all, im willing to bet you can definitely do better than 8s. or at least have the ability to get there with improvement. so my recommendation (which unfortunately isn’t going to be relevant until season 3) is just getting ahead of the mob. i know people say it ALOT, but it really is important. staying ahead of the mid tier mob allows you to primarily group with people that know what theyre doing and are pretty good in general.
if you’ve never pushed higher keys before, you’ll have to take my word for it. but doing 13/14/15 etc is MILES easier than 7/8/9/10 etc, purely due to the quality of players you group with in those ranges. yes, the higher keys do more damage, have more health, but the people running those keys also do more damage, and know how to properly use their kits to survive damage (more or less, not always), making the run much smoother and easier than the lower brackets where the vast majority of players do none of those things.
EDIT: reading through the comments, people are putting way too much emphasis on overall damage. yes, damage IS important, BUT, overall damage is HEAVILY skewed by the run as a whole. is your tank pulling too small? are you spending a lot of time single targeting 1 high HP mob? are your wiping? are you frequently doing pulls down a dps because they died? all of those things will lower your overall damage, and do not give an indication of your personal performance. for example, im currently playing Havoc. VERY good funnel damage. i play with a ret paladin often. when he plays with me, his overall damage is higher, even though he did not physically do more damage than he usually does. this is because as havoc, i can burn down high HP mobs very fast, leaving little to no time where the group is stuck single targeting 1 mob at the end of a pull. just trying to say how overall isnt everything, and isnt always a direct representation of your personal performance.
can you do better? sure. we all can. but the only time you should really be looking at damage as the primary reason you can time keys, is when you have a clean run, no wipes, little to no deaths, everything went smooth, but you still didn’t time it, THEN you should look at damage as the main reason.
I appreciate this post, thanks for breaking it down for me, I did find some ways to improve my damage so I will keep working on that, on the tank side, ill keep at it and try to break through to higher key tiers.
Still way too much emphasis on damage and straight away armory stalking someone is absolute cringe. I’ve literally never seen a pull in an 8 go bad because of lack of damage. It’s almost always unwanted buttpulling or lack of interrupts.
To be perfectly honest, even if you were underperforming, the easiest thing to backpack through a run is one low DPS–so I sincerely doubt if you attempted multiple 8’s and that hallway seemed to be a shutout every time that it wasn’t just a combination of people taking unnecessary damage, and just an overall lack of group effort to mitigate things with kicks/hard cc as opposed to you specifically being the root of the problem.
Its because people dont know how to pull that dungeon, and most of all, people lack spatial self awareness they end up butt pulling because the yare not paying attention.
wasn’t an insult. just a category of player for the bracket described. a generalization of the group of players that best fit that description. if you feel it describes you, and feel attacked, thats on you, it wasn’t intended that way. and if it doesn’t describe you, then idk why you feel attacked.
I kid I kid sir. I’m slow and casual, but know how to use my CCs (love PvP) and my rotation very well. Granted there isn’t much to do in frost mages.
