She puts what she is told into her books, that’s the only additional thing she does. She’s stated numerous times on social media that she has doesn’t have that much control of the current story. What you’re seeing now is the domino effect, which imo, started when Dave Kosak kills off Vol’jin and made Sylvanas warchief. Ignoring WoD, that’s when the integrity of the narrative began to fall off.
You Alliance players clearly don’t understand how good you have it. All your favorite characters are alive and well, are relatively active and participating in the story, and perform amazing feats.(Jaina crashing Lordaeron, Tyrande and Malf going Predator on the Horde in Darkshore)
And most of all, YOUR FACTION IS WINNING, both in morality and in actuality. What else do you need?
Predator? Yeah okay. Tyrande ascends to the embodiment of Elune’s vengeance and then proceeds to lose to Steve Danuser’s self insert.
Oooooo such a predator. Woow she killed one Val’kyr that was literally nothing more than a backup for the 3 Sylvanas actually needs.
Meanwhile once again Kaldorei fail their main objective. Stopping the raising of Sira and Delaryn. And the Horde PC and Nathanos get away with everything they set out to accomplish.
the story become un-salvageable…when Sylvanas burn Teldrassil…
where only women, children and un-armed civilians left and burned to death…
its like Crossing the Rubicon…and cement the Horde as the main villain in BFA…or even for the rest of WoW…
No form of redemption will save the Old honorable Horde or Thrall’s Horde after this…
“even for the rest of WOW”. Part of my worry about the future is that I have no idea that Blizzard even gets that part. It looks like, to me, that they think they can ease up a bit on the villain bat and things will be OK again.
Even if I accept that, I don’t get why the devs think that is a good story to create. It’s a terrible storyline from the point of view of faction pride and only reinforces the sense of being villains in our own story.
She kicks his aas and them lets him retreat out of pity. That’s how its’ displayed, same reason she lets Belmont live, to suffer in a petrified state.
Yeah, and multiple contingents of Horde soldiers, she’s on a killing spree.
You serious? You honestly expected to kill/detain a player character and kill Nathanos?? And how are Sira and Delaryn actually a loss? They’re just 2nd-rate versions of characters you already have, nobodies, who have now both become edgy teenagers, Maiev and Shandris respectively are superior still in every way
Wow, you Night elf players seriously need to lower your standards, cuz that’s just absolutely insane if this Is generally how most dissatisfied Night elf players feel.
But when his characterization was fixed the Horde didn’t have this one sided portrayal. It would be far more upsetting to me as a fan of his character if he continued to do nothing.
IMO the problem isn’t Baine’s behavior. It’s that the story demands that he engage in this kind of behavior in order to remain even moderately in character.
Player character? No. I think both Valk’s should have gone down by the end of it, Nathanos living one of two ways, and the Horde PC barely making it out alive. Nathanos either does get killed and the last Valk has to lug his corpse and the Horde PC away to safety. Similar to the one quest in Silverpine when the humans drink the Worgen Blood. The second Valk then gives her life to revive Blightcaller. Or both Valk’s fall to Tyrande and Malf and the Horde PC and Nathanos both barely escape with their lives via something other than just Nathanos shouting “Enough!” and then hopping on an easily shot down, slow moving bat.
Sira and Delaryn aren’t raised in to unlife nor are any other Kaldorei.
The Horde actually takes an L from the Night Elves and for once Tyrande and Malfurion actually look powerful and competent and Alliance PCs got to witness them and Horde PCs got to fear them.
And if Steven Danuser really can’t handle his self insert losing a single battle then simply don’t send Blightcaller there in the first place. Send someone else he’s okay with letting eat dirt with both Valks and just the Horde PC escapes.
After Teldrassil, on top of doing nothing but one loss after another and being nothing more than a pedestal for human potential for the last 4 expansions and the Wolfheart novel, the Night Elf community deserves it.
I don’t expect you to agree. Horde players are drunk on doing nothing but netting one win after another while pretending that expansion’s been really mean to them for some reason.
If it were for the horde, he’d have challenged her immediately after Teldrassil… or, failing that, after Lordaeron. Nope, he’s a self-centered sad old orc who cares more about his personal concept of honor than the people he swore an oath to protect. The fact that it took a 18 year old human king to show him what honor is, is not only an insult to the character as he’s been historically established, but to horde players as well.
The character is ruined.
Yeah, playing the traitor not once but now twice because he loves Jaina and Anduin in spite of what it might do to his people is certainly what’s best for them and clearly not his own personal sense of “honor”. Let’s not forget his people are also the same ones he condemned for wanting to fight back after being slaughtered at camp Taurajo.
No, the only thing he’s missing at this point is a Stormwind tabard.
Even if analytically it doesn’t make sense and many Horde players (including me) don’t feel motivated to fight the war, it’s hard to deny that people are extremely passionate about this story. Particularly compared to recent stories.
I think a lot of that has to do with stories dealing with characters with pre-existing backgrounds instead of needing to build it up from nothing.
Not all that satisfying. From a narrative standpoint, Sylvanas is a bad character in BFA. Now, hear me out, I LOVED her in Vanilla through Wrath. She was sympathetic. She made mistakes, but always kept her eye on the goal, killing Arthas. After that, she started on her “become immortal” schtick.
Which SHOULD be her storyline here. But her actions blatantly contradict that. She wants to live forever… so she provokes the Alliance. who, only a few years ago, proved able to siege Orgrimmar (albeit with aid from the anti-Garrosh Horde). She tries to lure Anduin, Genn, and Alleria into a trap… using herself as bait. Even if she succeeded, she leaves the next to the top likely being Tyrande and Malfurion, who again are furious at her and likely won’t stop at exterminating her meatshields.
That’s what I mean about her muddied motivations. We’re told she wants to live forever, but her actions don’t support it at all.
Yes, but that’s just because Nathanos is an objectively terrible character and can’t be written out of the game fast enough.
Dude, humans have and always will be at the forefront of the Alliance, that’s just how it’s set up. They’re a solid middle ground race that have connections to all races of the Alliance similar to how Orcs are the center races of the Horde.(or were, until we were wiped out) Idk what else you expect, but you guys are winning right now, and with the current writing team, this is the closest to winning you’re likely to get in awhile, so I’m just suggesting to keep expectations reasonable, cuz you know as well as I do that these writers right now have done nothing but dissapoint.
Hordes’ been getting it’s as kicked for years, r u kidding? Cataclysm, we lost Cairne, MoP was a massive loss and killed off a massive chunk of the Orc population, WoD was to ensure the Orc population remained forgotten in an alternate timeline, and Legion was the loss of Vol’jin and an entire Forsaken fleet. The Horde should be nowhere near the Alliance in terms of footing right now.
Drunk on winning? What do I look like, one of those deluded Sylvanas fans? Does it look like our faction is winning? Two of our most important leaders are out of the picture, the Warchief is an incompetent dumaas that couldn’t lead a bee back to its’ own hive, if she literally smeared the entire thing in honey, let alone an entire faction. At least the writers care enough to even TRY satisfying Night elf fans. Anyone who likes Orcs or Tauren, have been actively getting spat in the mouth since the beginning of this expansion, turning one of our most beloved heroes into a whimpering puss who needs a pep talk from Anduin to make an effort to save the Horde. At least the writers cared enough to let Tyrande flip off Good boy Anduin and do what the hell she pleases.
Ehh … part of my problem is that I know they didn’t intend for him to be just a Jaina/Anduin/Alliance fancow. His current characterization wasn’t supposed to be “fixed” in this way; it’s just an accident of the game. They wrote that scenario for the defense of the gates of Mulgore that was supposed to show how, when pushed far enough, there was a point where he would put his hoof down and stand against the Alliance with everything he had. That he would go against “the Alliance’s interests” when push came to shove. It’s not just some datamined text; there are recorded voice lines.
But they pushed that part of his character aside, seemingly indefinitely, and doubled down on him being Jaina and Anduin’s bestest friend in the Horde, always willing to put their benefit ahead of the lives of Horde soldiers. I keep wanting them to come back to that Baine, the one they sketched out and seemingly abandoned.
I don’t want a single-minded “Red rulez Blue droolz” character; frankly, Gey’arah’s weak reasons for supporting Sylvanas make me roll my eyes. But just once, I’d like to see evidence that Baine is willing to go against Anduin, Jaina, and the Alliance when what he thinks is best for the tauren doesn’t align with their interests. Just once. Because until that happens, it’s impossible to tell the difference between “complicated and benevolent” and “complete sell-out.”
Which comes after Teldrassil, after which I pointed out that there are no good choices for Horde Leaders. If they aren’t down with a genocidal war (which it was been proven Saurfang is not, even if he was fine with conventional war) the only hope going forward was with Anduin and Baine with the mutual friendship they have. Hence Saurfang couldn’t kill Anduin.
Now in the narrative Saurfang knows that Anduin (and Baine, left unspoken) aren’t going to be riding to his horde’s rescue. Thrall might be a savior, but honestly it should fall to Saurfang to do it himself. This is his mess and he is on the spot. He has shown himself no better as a leader than Blackhand, Doomhamer, MU Grom, or AU Grom (they were all manipulated into heinous acts, even if some went more willingly than others).
The question going forward is what is Saurfang made of?
I see what you are saying needs to happen with Baine, but in face of what the over all story is past Teldrassil (and with a one side wins all option not available) how do you pull that in if Baine is the one character that was been written as able to start mending the fences between the factions. (N’zoth will be a distraction cause Sylvanas and Teldrassil is never being lived down)
I can’t see Lor’themar doing it. Gallywix is out. Rastakhan rules out Talanji, The nightborne are out after Teldrassil (since the night elves and high elves came to their defense when their city was threatened), Gey’arah would be a joke at this point, Saurfang is too involved in Teldrassil, Thrall has too many mistakes on his record now with Sylvanas after Garrosh, so whose left?
Mayla Highmountain? Ji Firepaw?
Do you see them doing anything serious with those two when they have Baine? I don’t. So that means that particular Baine character development gets back shelved to a future expansion.
He had the choice of being honest and openly refusing to fight on Sylvanas’ behalf and organizing Horde against her. More likely to be effective than participating int he battle and secretly tanking it. After all, Andiun was always going to oppose Sylvanas and the last time we ran this plot [sigh] Voljin stayed honorable and worked with Horde leaders to replace the Warchief.
In the end, that fact is that he didn’t stay honorable and he did it against his own Horde. Now, as a character, Saurfang is salvageable (unlike others, [sigh]). But that either means you have to be willing to ignore his dishonor (which isn’t the worst we have had [sigh again]) or he has to acknowledge that was wrong.
If Baine “mending the fences” isn’t inspiring to me, doesn’t cause me to cheer and doesn’t give me any semblance of faction pride, then his fence-mending is worthless from my point of view. Maybe a better solution would just be to kill off all of the current generation of the Horde and actually develop some younger leaders.
I couldn’t agree with you more about Sylvanas, and I’m glad to see someone else take another look at her and her HORRIBLE character assassination since Cata. Thank you.
I almost exclusively play Forsaken and have since BC, and every step of the way you’re reminded about the most important virtue every Forsaken has: FREEDOM. Forsaken fight and die for Sylvanas because she alone, through shared violation, understands how the world treats, has treated, and will treat the undead. She alone gave the Forsaken a place on Azeroth to call their own with minimal harassment and she alone didn’t forsake them when their families and Faith did. That isn’t to say she loves the Forsaken, of course, but it should paint a picture of the admiration and respect the Forsaken have for their Queen. She was their literal savior from an eternity of mindless slavery.
Even when you make a newer Forsaken character you’re given a (lore) choice about whether to side with her or not. Lillian Voss had a wonderful story, and so too the elderly undead in front of Undercity who beseeches you to kill some animals for a shawl to cover her trembling frame so she could have one. More. Night. To sew bodybags for the fallen. Her care is predicated on the fact that Forsaken life is precious because they are so few and unable to procreate like the living.
And then you have this vapid, senseless writers have her just willy-nilly poof scores of Forsaken into existence and etcetera. The worst part is coming in 8.1.5 and what she does with Proudmoore and Zelling. Given EVERYTHING she has experienced under the Lich King Sylvanas would never EVER do such a vile and disgusting thing like stab a knife right through the heart of Forsaken identity.
That bikini-clad shambling monstrosity isn’t Sylvanas. That’s an embodiment of epically awful writing and character assassination.
![:woman_shrugging:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/woman_shrugging.png?v=6" ":woman_shrugging:")