The general proposal: As long as a soloist or small group performs adequately, the rewards over many random battleground matches, including conquest, should be such that the soloist or small group had at least a 50 50 chance of winning all along, with benefit decreasing for larger and larger groups. Any specifics changes should be intended as attempts to realize this proposal. I have no intention of suggesting any punishments against either those who form premade groups or those who win.
In a perfect world, half of our random matches would be wins and the other half would be losses. In the random battleground system, premade groups, including multiple queue-synced groups, is a problem that tilts the odds against soloists and smaller groups. In order to reduce quit rates and incentivize good performance, it is necessary not only to redesign the random battleground reward system to counteract statistical bias, but to provide data to the player regarding reward portioning, i.e., which portion of the reward came from personal performance, and which portion of the reward came from group matchup.
For example, if a team of 40 soloists in PvE gear makes a reasonable effort against 8 queue-synced groups of 5 full-gladiator players twice in a row and loses both times, the soloists should, on average, walk away with around 1 winâs worth of rewards, even if the worth includes most of what is currently the daily 125 conquest for the first win. That would allow anyone to sort out the daily conquest rewards in a reasonable amount of time, whether they choose to group up or not.
One thing they could do is they could bank the rewards at 50% rate for every loss. For example, if you get 125 for the win, and you lose 10 in a row, you get 125 + 125 * 10 / 2 = 750 cp for the 11th win. It could work like the determination bonus in LFR, but for conquest.
The problem is itâs also not terribly fun to lose all the time. I had another idea of having some soloable mini quests that could be turned in for conquest inside the bg, like those WG quests. Losing hopelessly? Not a problem - kill 10 horde npcs / players for at least some minor conquest.
Increase honor from battleground objectives. Make it feel worthwhile to complete them even if you think youâre going to lose.
Award a small amount of bonus honor and conquest on a close loss. Also incentivizes trying to win in a losing match.
Remove honor from kills. This means all players on a team will get the same honor whether they are defending a flag or fighting in mid. Will also disincentivize camping the graveyard to âhonor farmâ.
Award all honor and conquest at the end of a match. If a player leaves partway through they get nothing. If a player backfills an in progress match, they get full rewards as if they had been there from the start. This will slightly punish leavers and reward those who backfill for getting put into a most likely losing in progress match.
Remove âfirst win of the dayâ bonuses. Increase match completion and win honor and conquest gains to compensate.
Rework the weekly PvP quests. The two random weekly quests should instead be a single quest of your choice, similar to the PvE quest. So you could pick from random battlegrounds, epic battlegrounds, solo shuffle, etc and do the PvP content of your choice to complete the weekly quest. Increase quest rewards and required honor to compensate for only having 1 quest. The weekly sparks and brawl quest and the periodic holiday quests would stay as-is.
Rework PvP reward boxes. Currently they are not worthy of their epic rarity. Add a new PvP epic quality box given from completing the weekly PvP quest and the weekly sparks quest that gives gold, crafting materials/crests, bloodshards, cosmetics, etc. Downgrade existing PvP boxes given from winning matches to rare quality. Add a chance for them to drop cosmetics.
Equipping a piece of PvP gear unlocks a warband wide, seasonal discount on purchasing conquest gear for that item slot. For example if you purchase and equip a conquest chest, buying a conquest chest on an alt will be cheaper. This will help gear your alts or your mainâs off-spec.
Put a limit to how many world pvp supply crates you can get conquest from per day OR make it so you canât open it in a raid/if you were in a raid when it dropped. Crate farming is boring but also the fastest way to actually earn conquest and that should not be the case. With the other changes making it easier to gain conquest crate farm raids shouldnât be needed.
Obviously these are just some of my ideas or ideas others have posted and I honestly think bigger changes are needed long term.
Do people actually care about honor that much?
It does nothing for actual PvP except get you green gear, which becomes useless after a week. (yes yes there are honor rewards but they do NOTHING for PvP except reward the player some trivial items, titles, mounts or whatever else they do.
Real PvP would be when everyone has the same gear lvl, chants, pots, profs etc etc but this will never happen in WoW and to be honest I dont mind because losing to someone with better gear, chants, in a group etc means nothing to me.
I accept WoW PvP for what it is, maybe you all should tooâŚotherwise just yell for gear equality for ALL players!!
And honestly most of you would not want gear equality considering all the little things you complain about now, trust meâŚ
(In the 6 months Ive been casually reading these forums no one has ever asked for gear equality (well maybe once or twice I might have missed something lol) JUST nerfs , bans , report people for grouping in an MMO (lmfao) etc etc âŚ)
EDIT
forgot to add equality would also need to happen with addons, macros etc. a lot of people get rolled in this game because someone has a better UI setup which is probably the worst part of WoW PvP (EVEN WoW endgame PvE lol) but how many of you will actually admit thatâŚ
If youâre gearing a new alt for the season, buying shards either to sell or use for sockets, trying to grind honor levels (why?), etc.
But yeah, honor isnât all that useful especially with being able to transfer it on your warband, so maybe objectives could award a bit of conquest too or something? I donât know how best to work that out.
Ideally the whole PvP cosmetic reward system would be completely revamped as itâs sorely lacking.
You can sell honor blood gem for 5000 gold I think, so itâs not useless. But they could definitely come up with some seasonal pass cosmetic thingy like Overwatch for honor. Current 8800 x 25 honor between each cosmetic reward is just too sparse. Itâs like 40-50 hours of BGs to get a single icon change. Whereas Overwatch you get something new after a couple of matches.
Yeah didnt know that.
However they need to get people into BGâs somehow, not many people like WoW PvP for what it is. (doesnt help a lot of PvPers are very toxic to new players / âbadsâ)
Gold farming is a bad slope to ride but Blizz has gotten on board with WoW tokens haha.
Which is why you have people selling carries in PvP / PvE and these rewards are useless unlike in Vanilla when you had to make friends to achieve anythingâŚ
To be fair, you still need friends to achieve things in todays WoW which is why Ive achieved nothingâŚand im prob gonna get my a farmed for these posts lol ⌠i feel the demon hunters already queuing up (i really hate that anti stealth ability)
In a way, WoW PvP has always been about getting together with friends and beating down on the enemies. I remember me and my brother used to live together and we would play from the same room and have instant communication and we would often win 2v3 or 2v4 back in MoP. It wasnât fair to the others, but itâs what MMORPG PvP was all about. Banding together and trying to dominate. From this point I totally relate to people playing in premades.
But now as Iâm older, I definitely see value on a balanced solo-friendly mode, like what unrated blitz brawl used to be. I donât want to spoil rated Blitz for people who want to climb, and frankly I donât want to listed to their complaints either.
125 conquest is limited to the first daily win, after which more wins offer much less conquest, but your general idea is not the worst. Your second idea, however, would encourage players to abandon the objective, and the battle would snowball into more and more hopelessness. Comebacks are rare, but they do happen.
Iâm not even sure what you mean. Thatâs not even the proposal. The proposal is, if you play 10 matches, win 4, but perform well in each, you should walk away with about 5 winsâ worth of rewards and about 5 lossesâ worth of rewards.
Cross-faction is something I considered, but I donât think it would work. What happens when you have 8 groups that queue-sync, and 4 of the groups get placed on the opposite side? The 4 groups on the enemy team sabotage the match while the other side stomps. This would not solve the queue-syncing problem. Nor can we rely on Blizzard to ban for this. There would be too much plausible deniability. The best option imo is to offset the unfairness with bonus rewards to the little guy for tolerating their presence.
Iâm kind of indifferent personally, if it makes games more equal. Besides every horde player probably has 10 alliance alts anyway at this point. Itâs so easy to reroll or merc these days, itâs not really a factor.
In my mind, the matchmaking part would fix that. Ideally, roughly, the losing players should not be matched against the winning players in the next match. Losers should play losers. So worst case the losers will face the sabotaging part of the premade, maybe. If they lose again, then the third match they should only face double losers, which hopefully is going to finally mean solo queuers.
I think itâs what Overwatch uses in quick match. They basically have very basic MMR that goes -3 to +3. Every win gives you +1, every loss takes -1. So in theory if you lose 3 in a row, you are matched against ot her people who lost 3 or more in a row or close to that. (Actually I have no idea where I took that, but there is definitely some matching happening there)
The only downside is that queues become longer. Overwatch has just 5v5 players. I donât know how many parallel epic 40v40 games are happening to create big enough pool to grade players fairly. ChatGPT estimates there are around 50 epic BGs at prime time in US Retail. That should be enough, but maybe the wait time will increase to 10-15 minutes. Iâd be fine with that personally.
(i really hate that anti stealth ability)
