I’m sorry I wanted to just drop this but I still have seen no proof it isn’t just a vocal minority or split down the middle at the very least, because I see a LOT of people who can’t stand the cross-faction cooperation in Dragonflight and feel like there’s a lot of not-killing going on when there should instead be a lot of killing going on instead.
1 Like
Oh boy, you’re back and here i thought you were done fighting with someone who is trying to “Re write History”
I do agree with this, the current writing team seems to blow through content at light speed and they seem to struggle with building both A and B list characters to actually take the mantles of leadership and move forward. I think both factions have suffered because of this, it’s like they killed off Varian and they killed off Vol’jin (bad move imho) way to fast and then they did what they did to Sylvanas but almost NOTHING else was moving in the background to lay any groundwork unless it was a front and center (at that time) character. What is going on with Rokhan and the Trolls? Baine sat for 2 years in Oribos picking his nose but Thrall has played sidekick for 2-3 expansions now and is always available for a good one liner.
Speaking of speed, we found out who the Jailer was and killed him inside an entire expansion, it’s one of the reasons (imho) he is one of the WORST villains ever in anything. Also it seems like they lost their way with Sylvanas and then just used her to shoehorn the Jailer (one and done) into the story. The writing is all over the place.
I don’t agree with this, i think it would break the game in a fundamental way and folks would leave en masse and that would be it for WoW. I do think there is possibly a path to open up certain races to the other faction like perhaps the Tauren to the Alliance or (well i think they should have done this to begin with) the Dark Iron Dwarves to the Horde. It’s hard for me to see Gnomes populating Orgrimmar and not just laugh at the absurdity or really for almost any living race Alliance side to visit The Undercity and not have it be absurd. I just don’t see it.
Then there is the whole PvP thing, if they were to merge the factions they would have to almost instantly create new ones because if you homogenize the factions to open it to all races, then there is no PvP. Yea i just can’t see this ever happening, not completely anyways.
1 Like
Really? That’s the example you chose? The Tauren hate the Alliance. And for good reason. Before the Alliance-Horde War during the Alliance-Horde War and during Fourth War they canonically took the brunt of Alliance aggression since the Barrens is always one the Alliance’s first invasion targets. And the Alliance’s terrible history with their closest allies does nothing to improve the Tauren opinion.
Hell Sylvanas was able to effectively blackmail Baine in Before the Storm by threatening to expose his correspondence with Anduin knowing that it would get Baine ousted from his position High Chieftain. (Like many things in BfA they kind of just forgot about this but it’s still canon.)
When we help purge the happy memories of a Tauren in bastion one of those happy memories is of him fighting the Alliance. And nearly every Tauren NPC we speak to in BfA that isn’t Baine seems to be pretty eager to wipe out the Alliance.
Everything we know about the Tauren paints a picture of a people who REALLY don’t like the Alliance with the exception of their leader.
It’s fine the Alliance don’t like the Tauren either, too chewy, that is why you guys have the forsaken so the rest of the horde don’t get eatten.
Well yea BUT, Baine and Anduin have a long standing freindship. As evidenced by…
They have history that i think would go quite a ways toward softening their stance. In addition the Tauren definitely have an affinity and a kinship with the Night Elves in druidism and i think Hamuul Runetotem would be a perfect example of getting along with Night Elves.
Yea i don’t necessarily agree with this completely as evidenced by what i said above. Also i would add that the Highmountain Tauren themselves would be another possibility. Clearly Blizzard is looking to put Mayla and Baine together and a merging of the Tauren has possibilities.
My whole point is that there is room to open things up, it doesn’t necessarily have to be what i said but i do think there are some possibilities for some cross faction pollination with different races. I just think getting rid of the factions would be game breaking.
People have been overestimating this “kinship” since Vanilla and it’s still as incorrect now as it was then.
For one thing, Druidism isn’t the cornerstone of Tauren culture that it is for Night Elves. Hunters, Warriors and especially Shaman completely eclipse Druids in cultural relevance for the Tauren.
Also the Sunwalkers and Seers were founded because they wanted to distance themselves from the Night Elves and their exclusively Elune-based worship and remind everyone that was being influenced by the Night Elves that An’she was equally as important as his sister. So if anything it seems like a lot of Tauren believe Night Elves are a threat to their society.
I think I already made my point, but I want to hammer home that Hamuul and the other Tauren Druids in the Cenarion Circle are considered anomalies, not the norm. Sure, most if not all Druids go to Moonglade for training, but most are loyal to their factions first and the Cenarion Circle is a distant second.
Sorry to be like this as a hardcore Tauren fan I really can’t just let this go. I hate this fanbase-created flanderization of a nuanced race that are more than just “the nice part of the Horde”.
1 Like
Well it IS Hamuul Runetotem standing in Amirdrassil or so i hear.
From where i stand a LOT of the classes we see and play are anomalies, certainly Paladins while a popular choice for the playerbase are in and of themselves a very small population. And of course certainly Druids would be only a tiny fraction of any population available. DH’s would certainly be a tiny group. Same with DK’s for the most part, it’s only certain classes like Warrior where the available population would be giant or basically be unlimited.
You don’t need to apologize, we are just having a discussion. From my point of view the Tauren and the Blood Elves are the ONLY races i play Horde side and the Tauren in particular are peace loving honorable people, i appreciate the Tauren lore which i think is more flexible than any other race in the Horde. Certainly if i was going to give them a place i would say the Tauren are the heart of the Horde but that doesn’t mean that there wouldn’t be anomalies that could be Alliance. Much like the Pandaren are really more Alliance oriented from my point of view but Chen was friends with Vol’jin.
In addition i think there is room (especially given that the player character is the “champion”) for a Tauren to be Alliance due to it being the certain circumstances that the player character IS the Anomaly of the game itself who does all kinds of special/individual things. We as the player base just see all the other player characters.
Flanderization, i had to look that word up, nice. As i said i think the Tauren are the heart of the Horde and i don’t view them as the “nice” part of the Horde but i do view them as a wise and open part of the Horde. While the story doesn’t really do enough justice to the Tauren because everyone else is edge lords and evil it’s hard to put into words how i feel about them. I guess if i was going to explain how i see the Tauren, if you have ever been in the military and you have a group of folks you are with, it’s a brotherhood. It’s more than a friendship and more than being in the same unit, it’s that closeness like a brother from another mother. These are literally people who you put your life in their hands and they put their life in yours and through that you are bonded in a way that is like no other. THAT is how i feel about the Tauren. Really i see the Tauren as a whole as a very grounded race that is essential to the Horde so that the story can be grounded BECAUSE most of the other races are edgelords and/or evil. Certainly they ground/offset the Orcs.
I don’t think the story needs to homogenize them as the nice guys or lessen them in any way to make it possible for the Tauren to play Alliance side but i do think it would require some good/special story telling to make it happen that would be an interesting story to explore, at least for me. I would love to be able to play Tauren Alliance side but it’s not my mission in life to make it happen or even think it will, it’s just a nice idea that i think would be a great idea to explore if done right.
It’s also a misrepresentation of what really happened in the class halls.
The lore for the CH wasn’t that there was a bunch of “champions” running around. For example there is only one Ashbringer, not millions, so in lore there was only one leader of the paladins, not millions.
So the Horde and the Alliance really didn’t come together. It’s like you said and going back to my example: there was a truce. The Blood Knight lady and some human paladins worked together for a time because it’s as an emergency but the Legion version of the Silver Hand was pretty much disbanded after the artifact weapon was depleted. Everyone went back home and the war started up again in BfA.
The lore for the CH is very… loose and I don’t think it should be used as proof of anything. Like, I think one CH quest had you go into the Exodar (it’s been a long time so I might be mixing quest lines together). For the Alliance, that’s no big deal but for the Horde, that’s a huge deal. So… which version is right? Did the Alliance champion go into the Exodar or the Horde? Another example is the DK class hall. You click a button and create DK troops. We know making DKs isn’t that easy and it takes the power of a Lich King to do so. Is making DKs to do table missions lore? I’m going to go with no, it’s absolutely not. It’s just flavor text for an in game mechanic.
And last but not least, there wasn’t a total hand-holding moment in the class halls. Using the shaman one for example, Magatha was lending her help to stop the Legion but she was also trying to steal from us. I remember fighting her troops for a daily or something.
I don’t think the faction war collapsed because of this, I think keeping us separated did. NPCs like Baine and Jaina have the freedom to hop the fence and the player, or champion, should have the same option. I think it’s lore breaking to make the entire population of Forsaken and Night Elves get along but there’s nothing wrong with individuals deciding they want to work together for the greater good, which is now represented by us guilding and grouping across faction.
2 Likes
I know this isn’t what you’re talking about, but I wanted to take this chance to mention that I think it was a colossal mistake to give Ashbringer and The Doomhammer to players. They’re too iconic for that treatment.
I particularly hate how they retconned The Doomhammer into being this conduit for Shamanistic power when before it was just a well-made warhammer whose power lay in the symbolism of the prestiege of the family line that forged it rather than any kind of magical enchantment.
1 Like
Yeah… the writers have been spending years trying to unwrite themselves from the corner they put themselves in with Teldrissel. They’ve tried Dothraking the Night Elves back from complete genocide, they tried to shift the blame solely to Sylvanas. When that didn’t work, they tried to shift it to the Jailer - that’s why Elune didn’t save them, she was just trying to help out her sis with ALL THE NIGHT ELVES BEING MASSACRED but OOPSIES, THEY ALL WENT TO HELL INSTEAD roflmao. Elune be like: “My bad yo.”
Then they try this thing where Tyrande can suddenly forgive now? Y’know, despite being the Literal Goddess of Vengeance Incarnated, kinda how the Night Warrior was pitched. And y’know, she’s like: “It’s cool now though, Sylvanas can do dailies in the Maw for the rest of time. Now we’re even Horde.”
And when all that doesn’t work, they’re basically like: “Ok, screw it, grow them a new tree, make a new city… now there’s literally no damage done anymore.”
2 Likes
You do know according to the LORE of the game there is also only ONE MC not millions, All of the MC is the same person according to the games lore, so it still fits.
I get what you are saying but i never ever thought Sylvanas was in any danger at any point because there was always going to be plot armor to protect her. I think making Tyrande the Night warrior was an interesting thing to do but again the developers blew through the story and got to her “forgiveness” almost before we knew it was happening. It was good that at least they took Blightcaller off the board and had Tyrande kill him, i felt that was good.
To be perfectly honest it’s not even that the Horde “champion” could be at Amirdrassil for me, it’s that if Tyrande is willing to go after Sylvanas with the power of the Night Warrior there is NO WAY IN HELL she would ever accept any Horde inside Amirdrassil regardless of whether or not it was the “champion” of Azeroth or an Orc Peon, like i said earlier from a story perspective there is no way that a Horde Champion wouldn’t be treated with hostility on sight in Amirdrassil. It’s a GIANT GAPING plot hole and shows that the developers really do not understand or just don’t care about the past of the game and what has gone on in the history of the game.
2 Likes
What’s a “MC?” Main character? Well yeah, I know, but I have no idea how that makes the lore of CHs fit.
If anything, it supports what I said.
Heritage Armor with it’s race locking is and will always be a regression in wow’s design when it comes to fashion. Stop praising it.
The heritage quests could easily have existed without the backwards restrictions.
After seen the new roadmap i think it’s safe to say that pandarens are not longer a thing
They will get theirs in TWW. Two sets per expansion. And I’m glad that they’re likely the last one, because we still can provide feedback for them.
Does race fantasy just give you people a rash or something?
TIL race fantasy did not exist before heritage armors.
Nice strawman.
I’m talking about you people crying every time Blizzard caters to race or class fantasy instead of push everything closer to soulless homogenization.
2 Likes