A Minor Request, All Things Considered

If a bunch of player wanted a recreation of OG Vanilla WoW, then is that a good reaso to add it to the game? :wink:

You mean businesses are in the business of making money? In that case, wouldn’t they make more money if they gave their customers what they wanted? :thinking:

Your attempt at dancing around this very simple direct question is pretty pathetic in all honesty. I know it’s damaging to your position but try to have some intellectual honesty here.

Sure, they’re in the business of making money, but they still have to be careful about changing things. For instance if everyone wants a change that ends up being bad for the game, such a change might cost Blizzard money. I’m pretty confident that every decision Blizzard makes about changing something in classic has some financial weight to it which is considered very carefully.

It’s a loaded question. It’s a hypothetical that doesn’t have an answer because it hasn’t been tested yet.

Pretty long-winded way of saying that Blizzard makes the decisions they think are best.

How is it a loaded question? I didn’t presuppose any particular fact or premise, it’s simply hypothetical. What, you never answer hypothetical questions?

Becuase it presupposes an unverified assumption that the person being questioned is likely to disagree with. It contains a theoretical that has yet to be tested in reality and therefore has no answer.

I’m gave you a question that has basis in reality. Answer that question and you’ll have a better understanding.

Not if they have no basis in reality, no.

I didn’t ask you to accept anything that’s “unverified.” A loaded question asks you to accept something is true, a hypothetical asks you to suppose something is true. My questions starts with “If…” so it’s just hypothetical. I’m not claiming all players in the game are asking for infinite gold, I’m asking you to simply suppose that they do. You see the difference?

And if you’re likely to disagree with it, it’s because it effectively destroys your positions and that’s why you won’t answer it. Instead, you jump, roll, flip, or do anything other than answering it.

A loaded question is exactly as I defined it.

Correct. And based on the limits of your hypothetical, the only extent, the only thing I can say that is if all players in the game are asking for infinite gold, it means that they’re doing just that.

It’s like asking me, “If 2+2=4, then what is 4?”

I’m going to answer, “4 is 2+2”

What am I supposed to have disagreed with now?

Which is hilarious because despite defining it correctly, you incorrectly labeled my question as loaded.

But that’s not what I asked. I essentially asked “If 2=2, then 2+2 = ?”

Wow, this is asinine. This right here is the single most pathetic display of mental gymnastics that I have ever seen someone employ to get out of answering a question. You never venture a guess on anything? You never speculate on anything?

“If it were raining outside, would the number of people carrying umbrellas increase?”
IF it were raining outside, it just means that it’s raining outside.”

???

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No, you just get fun out of different things.

Modern MMO players don’t like it when RP gets in the way of mechanics. To them RP is just flavour and you should be able to chop and change the flavour however you wish whenever you wish. Game mechanics - combat systems are the important bit.

To old school MMORPGers the RP bit is equally important as the combat mechanics - sometimes more so. Having your RP choices stick and have actual consequences over time - including gameplay consequences is important to them - it’s a big part of the fun.

Classic appeals to both markets but their objectives and what they find “fun” are completely alien to each other.

To some extent Blizzard needs to pick a side, they need to determine which of these two markets is their target market for the classic range of games. The goals of both markets are mutually exclusive. You can’t please both and trying to will alienate both.

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It’s not a loaded question, he’s trying to demonstrate for you how you can basically replace “infinite gold” with literally anything else and your answer, if you were being consistent, should be exactly the same.

Let’s say a portion of players wanted Blizzard to add LFR & LFD to TBCC. This is a realistic premise, these people most likely do exist.

Two questions:

  1. Is the fact that people want it a good enough justification to add these features?

  2. Would this be good or constructive for the stated goal of being a faithful recreation of TBC?

Your answers, judging by your previous responses, would be “yes” to no. 1.

To no. 2, it seems as though your answer would be “I don’t know because it hasn’t been tested”.

Since testing it means literally adding it in, that’s a non-option, how do you think that would go over? Letting everyone buy (for 1k gold???) and utilize dual spec, and then yoinking back out? Would this make any sense at all? Of course not. If they were to actually add it, there’s no way they’d take it back out.

So the discussion needs to hinge on discerning it’s value of being added before it is added, not after.

So your answer to no. 2 is essentially a cop-out. It’s either that, or you’re simply admitting that you do not have enough game knowledge about the TBC environment to make a decision as to whether it would generally be a good or bad idea, which means by extension, you’re essentially a blind man in a china shop criticizing the wallpaper.

Despite not being able to see (understanding or having any idea about how x/y would affect the TBC environment), you insult the quality of all the china in the shop, while also swinging around your cane breaking the china (recommending changes that you have not bothered to even think about how it could negatively affect the game).

You just irrationally want something with no logic attached and expect those of us who have a clue to be like “OK fine sure, yeah that sounds great”.

No.

We’re going to tell you it’s a bad idea. We’re going to say, "Excuse me, mr blindman, this is not a great place for you to be (go to retail if you want conveniences), and you shouldn’t swing your cane around like that in here (don’t recommend changes if you don’t understand what the purpose of this product is and/or don’t respect that purpose/the product).

Now let’s do the exercise I recommended earlier:

Would adding dual spec to the game be a good change?

If you were actually consistent, your answer to this question would be:

“I don’t really know, I haven’t been able to verify that”

Except that’s not your answer. Your answer is “Yes it would be great!”.

Conclusion: You don’t realize that you’re harnessing a double standard and Stopdotnlol is trying to get you to see that with regrettably very little success.

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I think I labeled it appropriately.

No, that’s not accurate at all. This would imply you know the answer and you’re asking me for the answer you want rather than than answer itself.

Does that mean you’re dropping it? Or are you sticking with the pretense that this is a genuine conversation with another human being?

Infinite gold would clearly be an objectively bad change for the game.

…but some people like to hack/cheat/gameshark their games to oblivion and have fun with cheats like that.

“Some people” like literally anything you can think of. The fact they like it is not grounds for it being considered for adding in.

This is not an actively developed GAS product. This is a faithful recreation of a retro-game. It’s basically like jumping onboard re-release hype for any other retro-game and demanding that the devs make the recreation easier…because people want it and it “doesn’t hurt anyone”.

It hurts the recreation. That’s what you don’t seem to understand. The goal of a recreation is to (as well as possible) accurately recreate it. Blizzard of course wants to simultaneously please as many people as they can, but that’s what Shadowlands is for (and they suck at it there lol, so we don’t want nunna that business, look at PvP for even more examples of how terrible things get when they don’t stick to the program).

Oh, look at all the bad faith arguments.

:yawning_face:

You think you did but you didn’t, because my question doesn’t ask you to accept anything as true, merely to suppose something is true. Accepting something as true != supposing something is true.

Here’s an example using bank robberies.

Hypothetical question: “If you were going to rob a bank, how would you go about it?”
Loaded question: “Have you stopped robbing banks?” (Here, I am implying that you already rob banks, hence “loaded” with a premise)

Now here’s the question I asked you before:

Exactly what premise is loaded here? Since you insist this is a loaded question, I’m curious what the actual “loaded” part is.

Is this the second time you have repeated this? You’re just going to get the same answer as last time. My assessment is that your question was loaded. You won’t change my mind on this by trying to define words for me. If you’re assuming I don’t know the definition of words, then why are you still using them to communicate with me?

Maybe ask me a question based in reality and then the conversation will go somewhere.

So is that a yay or nay for barbershop?

It’s actually a partial yay - things like hair makeup maybe. Not full feature changes. The kind of things a real life person could change about themselves and their appearance.

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Because retail graphics are :nauseated_face:

How is it loaded? What implicit presupposition did it contain?

Because If I say yes then it makes me sound like I agree that If 100% of players wanted infinite gold they should get it. If I say no, then it makes me sound like I disagree with my original assertion.

Simply put, this is a trap question. It’s geared to get you the answer you want.

It’s also easily disarmed by pointing out the fact that the question assumes a non-realistic hypothetical. We don’t live in a world where the majority of the player-based is asking for infinite gold nor do we know what variables would have ever lead to such a desire in the first place. So, essentially, that question cannot be sufficiently answered.