That’s exactly it. 10000%. That’s why some of the things are gone. That was why the Black/Plagued Proto-Drakes didn’t get restored to their metas while future metas were left alone. The “parents” got butthurt over people being mad about that change. They were (maybe) told to undo that, but they said, “fine, for the future you can do this, but these you can’t have because we threw a fit”.
“Because I said so” is not an argument. Really, that’s what people say when they lack an argument let alone anything to back up their reasoning. That’s sadly been the driver for many decisions made about this game. They know it won’t be popular, but they do it anyway. When it comes to silly things like mounts, mog, pets, toys, just leave them be. Lower the drop chances post content, and that’s that.
The only thing that I will support staying as is, is AotC and CE. I get AotC every tier. While I want CE, I don’t have the gold to get that, and my guild may not reach that.
Oh, so this idea apparently isn’t even mine originally? Oh, you mean Vicious Saddle. Had to google it. Well, that’s interesting. So all these people arguing left out the fact that this exists already.
I’m guessing the difficulty to fill this bar is the same as it is to fill it the first time? So really, you are working for the mount just as hard as you are the first one.
You just did your edit, so yeah, never mind on what I said above.
KSM, you can’t really get 2500 or whatever KSM is twice on the same character or same season. You would have to do it on another character which would then grant something similar to the Saddle.
Thanks for that. That’s actually very supportive of this entire thread considering that Blizzard already is doing it!
You know the method for obtaining gladiator mounts changed in BFA, right? I mean, no, you don’t since you don’t even know how they are obtained now or then, but you could look it up before saying something like this.
It just isn’t stupid. Just 'cause you think it is means it is. I think it’s a good thing old AOTC/KSM mounts are no longer obtainable. It’s always cool to see someone on an old no longer obtainable mount in the middle of a hub city. I really feel like that would invalidate the “work” people put towards that goal, IMO.
The progression bar starts increasing after 1k rating (quite easy to get). And it increases with each win on arena and/or RBG
PVE could and should have one of those, for the sake of participation itself. Because for some people (like me), i really stop doing m+ at KSM or KSH,if i enjoy yhe rewards, then im off to do PvP.
I have all KSM/AOTC/KSH achieves, so i really dont care if anyone could have the mounts
It could be a paid carry, I don’t care HOW the person got it. The person getting the carry probably didn’t do much work, but the raid carrying them sure did.
They firmly said no. That’s why it was called the “wall of no”
===========================================
THE WALL OF NO - REVISED AS OF JUNE 18, 2015
SUMMARY:
Blizzard does not believe there are enough people interested in utilizing this idea long term to justify the costs necessary to bring it about.
Blizzard feels this idea is counter to the nature of MMO’s; non-progression equates to stagnation and eventual boredom.
Blizzard does not possess the old code. No, they did not save it as a "backup" - they might have for the launch of Cataclysm, but that was over four years and two expansions ago. Even if it were “recoverable” by other means (i.e., see “private” servers” below) it would still require lengthy and expensive rewrite, a task Blizzard denies interest in.
They have no plans or desire to recreate the original version(s). They refer to the notion as “a logistical nightmare,”… and in keeping with #1 above the time, money and resources required are prohibitive and unjustified.
TL;DR: “Too much cost, too little interest and it’s not what the game is about… we’re not doing it.”
Proponents of “Classic” (or any other variant thereof) servers rarely put thought into the idea. This would be similar to requests for the film industry to make silent films again, or the auto industry to mass-produce Model-T cars again. Avid collectors, people who look fondly back on those days, or new folks curious about the past might take a look at them, but that wouldn’t be a high number of people in the first place - never mind the few of those who would actually pay for the experience. There’s not enough market for those, so those companies are not doing it; neither is Blizzard. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a market - just that it’s nowhere near large enough to make it worthwhile.
BLIZZARD’S STANCE ON LEGACY SERVERS:
There are many Blizzard references on the issue over the years, from many different Blizzard employees; you can read most of them in previous Walls of No. For this one, we’ll focus mostly on a recent (May 29, 2015) interview with Lore, just to keep the length of this Wall a little more bearable:
(Quotes edited for brevity)
I honestly - I think [progression servers] would be a really cool idea. It’s just like - it’s a hard sell, because it’s a whole lot of work to put one of those together, and, the idea, like… if we put all of that work into that, that means … those people are working on that instead of something else, and there’s like, a GIANT list of what those ‘something elses’ could be.
We’re talking about a time in the game’s life when night elves were considered to be the best race for leveling because they had faster corpse runs.
I think the risk with something like that is a whole lot of people go ‘yaaay yeah, no no no I totally wanna play Classic,’ and then they play for like two days, and then they go ‘Well. That’s my fill of Classic FOREVER … I remember now … this game was not NEARLY as good back then.’ laughs
Don’t get me wrong… I think there’s a lot of people that would actually be totally into it and be like ‘this is the type of game that I wanna play.’ I think there’s a number of people that would be like that. I am just… my thought is that the sort of risk of it is - is that number of people high enough to justify the cost, or are we going to like - if Blizzard were to roll something out like that - would we be putting more engineers on making this work than players who participate? chuckles
The other side of it is, if we’ve got this one developer who’s just doing nothing but this for… five years… like, what else could he have done in that time? Like, are we talking about, now there’s two or three major game features that never get added because this guy was working on that instead? It’s interesting, really, thinking about it, because it’s the sort of issue that game developers face that there really isn’t ever an answer to.
So like if you say ‘oh I’ll just hire someone else to do those other features’, like, okay, but… then we’re still faced with the question of should we have this guy working on vanilla servers? Or should we have him working on … ANOTHER new feature? Like, hiring more people just means that now there’s ten, or twenty, or forty features that never make it into the game. So. It’s an interesting sort of tradeoff.
And there almost certainly is a point at which it would make sense. In theory, anyway. … It’s just a question of - do enough people in the current playerbase want this to justify the amount of time that’s gonna be spent to putting it together?
The reality is, what would almost certainly end up happening - IF it were something that Blizzard were ever to decide, to come out with vanilla servers - would be something where they’ve said okay, NOW it’s valuable to have vanilla servers, so we’ll put ten techs on it or something, instead of having one guy sort of chipping away at it for years. Because then what happens if that guy leaves?
Blizzcon 2014 :
Do you plan to introduce classic realms?
No we do not plan to. It is too hard to maintain that many versions of the game.
THE PROBLEMS WITH PRIVATE SERVERS:
Furthermore: Some have argued that even if Blizzard didn’t keep “backups” of old code they haven’t needed or worked on for nearly five years, they could take their code from these private servers, if they so desired. There are three major problems with that.
Most private servers are buggy in a lot of ways, because they aren't perfect copies of the live servers back in Classic. Frequently functionality is flawed (broken quest chains – some items, achievements, mounts, etc., not obtainable); they are generally buggy and unreliable. Blizzard would have to fix such code to make it useable – an undertaking which would likely take as long and cost as much as simply rewriting it from scratch… both of which they’ve described as a “logistical nightmare” and have said they’re not going to do.
Most private servers are altered in a lot of ways. If the devs were to take someone's Classic server data and trust that it was up and running properly, they would risk the possibility of - just to give some examples - hidden obscene content, or hidden, functional, Martin Fury shirts. And, yes, that can happen: when Nintendo released the first Pokémon games, they were completely unaware of the existence of Mew until well after the fact. It should be obvious that Pokémon Red and Blue are far simpler games than World of Warcraft; it would only be easier to hide things like that in the sheer bulk of game code that Classic WoW would have. Again, the devs would need to spend a lot of time going over them to make sure they're up to par.
Not to mention that Blizzard's stance on private servers is that they are illegal and unwelcome. This has been their stance from the very beginning. All other concerns aside, for them to simply take code from these servers would mean openly condoning the theft and illegal abuse of their property. It shouldn't need stating here how unlikely it is for that to ever happen.
In fact, Blizzard had a recent banwave in April 2015, targeted at Twitch players who were streaming use of said servers:
I’ve read forum topic on Battle.net that Blizzard is shutting down private server streams from Twitch.
People are currently getting banned within five minutes of turning on their stream. So yeah.
Every time blizz starts coming after these people, the community starts buzzing about Legacy servers, but they just flat out will not happen.
One of the simpler reasons is the “if you give a mouse a cookie” argument. You release classic wow servers, people are going to want BC servers. BC leads to LK, etc. etc… Every time they release a new expansion, people will eventually want a server for the old one available. Of course, no one’s going to want to go on to them after a while, but blizz won’t be able to remove them, or people will !@#$%.
They cost money to run, they cost effort to maintain. You’ll need at least one per expansion, and the thing is that they don’t draw and hold crowds large enough to justify maintaining them. Also, they detract from the current game’s market. Enough people spend their time in legacy, and when that content gets to stale for them they look back at the current model and think, eh, screw it, and quit until the nostalgia bug bites and they come back to mess around in MC/Kara/ICC for a month.
WHAT’S CHANGED SINCE CLASSIC:
In addition, very few players asking for a Classic Server have really thought through just what they’d be missing out on. Below is a list of key features introduced patch-by-patch up to the launch of Warlords of Draenor.
Burning Crusade
2.0.1 12/05/2006
Looking for Group interface tool (not LFD)
Pet stats scaling with their player’s stats
Multiple characters being able to use the same HoT on the same target (more than one druid can Rejuve the same person)
Resilience
CC effects lasting no longer than 12 seconds max in PvP
Honor Points as currency
Arenas
Hunters able to use traps in combat
Warrior rage generation normalized with weapon speed
Thrown weapons use durability instead of stacks
Crafting time for equipment reduced
Meeting Stones usable as summon stones
Main Tank option in the Raid UI
Display enemy cast bars
2.0.3 01/09/2007
Pets no longer attack CC’d targets
Pet raid frames
Flying Mounts
2.3.0 11/13/2007
Guild banks
Bonus healing also giving some bonus spell damage, making solo content easier on healers
Faction vendors giving discounts for reputation levels
Player pets attacking enemies from behind when possible
2.3.2 01/08/2008
Yellow question marks for completed quests on the quest givers instead of exclamation points
2.4.0 03/26/2008
Characters retaining talented spell ranks so they don’t have to relearn the spells after retalenting
Daily Quest limit raised to 25
2.4.3 07/16/2008
Apprentice Riding at level 30
Wrath of the Lich King
3.0.2 10/14/2008
Hit, Crit, and Haste no longer divided between Spell/Melee.
Spell pushback no longer infinitely pushes a spell back.
Spell power and healing power merged.
Calendar feature
Companions and Mounts changed from items; now accessible through the pet/mount tabs.
Focus frame
Lost tabards, pets, mounts, and keys can now be restored through vendors
Linkable trade skills
Improved quest sharing
Visible timer until the PvP flag clears
Macros and key binds saved server side
Auto looting mail
Druids and shaman able to use items while shape shifted
Barber shop
3.0.8 01/21/2009
Mounts no longer have racial restrictions within factions
Mob tapping improved
Corpse run speed improved
Rep gains from monster slaying no longer deprecate compared to player level
Chat frames able to be made Noninteractive
Special GM chat UI
3.1.0 04/15/2009
Dual Specialization
Ground Mounts no longer dismissing when you enter water
Farmable capital city reputation without just farming outdated cloth for months
Pet taunts on raid bosses don’t affect player taunts
Holding Alt over equipment slots to show other items for that slot
Color blind option
2-hour refundable items when purchased with alternate currencies (badges, honor, etc.)
Confirmation boxes to prevent accidental talent point placement
Class Roles in the LFG feature
Raid lockout warnings/escape option when entering a raid in progress
3.1.2 05/19/2009
Equipment Manager (saving sets)
3.2.0 08/05/2009
2 hour “just in case” trade window for raid & dungeon loot
Upgraded cat/bear form art
EXP through battlegrounds
NPCs to turn EXP gain off
Dungeon/raid lockout extensions
Shorter mount cast time
Apprentice Riding at level 20
Journeyman Riding at level 40
Expert Riding at level 60
Expert Riding flight speed changed to 150% instead of 60% (faster than ground mounts now!)
Double-paned quest log for easier quest info viewing
Uninterruptible casts now shown differently
Druids able to see their mana bar while shape shifted
Holding Shift to compare a piece of equipment to a currently equipped one
Visible item level
Vendor prices shown on items even when not currently using a vendor
More mailboxes in the capital cities
3.3.0 12/09/2009
Better descriptions in Character Creation
Reduced/removed daze chances for lower level players
Knockbacks no longer dismounting players
Maximum character level limitations for meeting stones removed
Taunt diminishing returns retuned and made easier
The ability to track quest objectives on the map
LFD & cross realm groups
Looking for Raid interface (not the actual LFR we know now)
Dungeon & Raid difficulty shown on the minimap
Disenchant added next to Need or Greed in roll options
3.3.3 03/23/2010
Random Battleground feature
General raid buff range increased to 100 yards, from 45
3.3.5 06/22/2010
Right clicking chat types in the chat frame to move the types to separate windows
Battle.net accounts now friendable
Cataclysm
4.0.1 10/12/2010
Flexible raid lockouts - you can now do a partial raid clear, then join a completely different group (assuming they’ve cleared at least as far as you had)
No more ammo
Auto-ranking spells
New in-game raid frames
4.1.0 05/04/2011
Players resurrectable through their character frame even after releasing
Character and Target frames now unlockable/movable
Target & Focus shown on minimap
4.2.0 06/28/2011
Dungeon Journal
Healing crits for 2x the heal instead of 1.5x
Buffs no longer generate threat unless they directly cause healing or damage
CC no longer pulls the group being Ccd
Need rolling on a BoE binds it to you, preventing AH ninjaing
Can no longer skin corpses already being looted or skinned by other players
Everyone gets /roar
Rearrangable characters on the Selection Screen
Dismiss Pet option on unit frames
Items turning yellow in the repair frame when under 20% durability, not when under 5 (not %).
4.3.0 11/30/2011
LFR
Transmog
Void Storage
Tank threat buffed
Bag search
Quest objective tracking on the minimap
Mass raid assist checkbox
Ability to unlearn profession specialization without unlearning the actual profession
Mists of Pandaria
5.0.4 08/28/2012
Account wide achievements, pets, & mounts
AoE looting
Removal of the ranged/thrown/relic slot
Daily quest cap removed
Roll result frame
Item filtering at vendors
5.0.5
Pet Battle System
5.2.0 03/06/2013
Tap to Faction for world bosses
Absorb effects visible on character frames
5.3.0 05/20/2013
Loot Specialization
Ability to harvest nodes for reduced harvests if not at the appropriate level in their gathering profession
5.4.0 09/09/2013
Flexible raids
5.4.2 12/10/2013
Cross-realm mailing for BoAs
Warlords of Draenor
6.0.2 10/13/2014
New character models
Increased barber shop options, decreasing the need for the paid appearance change
Premade Groups tab
Quest items no longer taking inventory space (as often)
Tradeskill items stacking to 200 instead of 20
Account-wide Toy Box
Bag cleanup
Reagent bank
Flexible system incorporated into non-Mythic raids going forward
Automatic Hit & Expertise caps
Reduced cost of rez spells
Personal Loot
Outline Mode
Favorite Mounts
Flying mounts usable as ground mounts in no-fly zones
Did you read what I said? I said “the JOY in obtaining”. That’s not the same thing in what you said. The JOY… J-O-Y. As in the positive/happy feeling you get when obtaining something. Please read before posting. You are an MVP after all.
I already said I know little about the method of earning PvP mounts, which you would have saw if you read anything here.
Well, that’s the problem. It doesn’t invalidate anything. That is a sad excuse. Your work still mattered. If someone earns the same thing but later, they need to do work for it. The Vicious Saddle is proof enough that people can get older PvP mounts at later content.
I don’t know if they’ve kept their promises or changed their minds more.
I guess this could work after you get KSM, you would have to do like the same amount of timed keys on a certain difficulty that would, in theory, have earned you KSM if you didn’t already have it. So yeah, that makes sense. I run 20s all week for vault filling, but this would be doable if I didn’t have to play an alt.
I haven’t done key carries as in someone was buying. I did however get in a key where the lead had the good io and their friend was clearly the carry based on io, skill, and gear. Mind you, most players can improve, but still, I would like to know that I’m going to have to work harder because of whatever reason.
I’ve never done AotC sales before. I participate in the ones done by players online via streams. I plan on doing them with that Kalamazi this season, if he decides to do them again. I spoke with him briefly about it at BlizzCon and he has done my carries in the past. I wasn’t raiding then but didn’t want to miss out. But now that I’m raiding, I feel like I should give back, so I plan to help.
Make it 3k please and not one that changes with the top 1%. 3k, depending on your circle and what you play, can be difficult. I play prot in keys, so I have little trouble getting in. I’m ok with a AotC or “AoKeyC” (har har) style reward for hitting 3k.
@Lucrend, I <3 you for your post. Awesome. Just don’t know which part to quote.
So that person in your scenario sitting in the city could be someone who did zero work other than pay a bit of gold gets the super rare, prestigious, limited time reward. How is that special?
Why does that matter? You don’t see the people doing the carry, you just see someone with a limited item and think “wow they’re REALLY good at this game because they have something you can no longer get”.
This whole “did the work” stance falls apart. Got anything else?
Do you think that the “joy” of earning it is the same between the two methods that existed? Again, you don’t even know how PvP mounts are earned so you can’t really answer that question, but as someone that earned them both ways I can tell you it isn’t.
You’re missing the point, so just go troll somewhere else. I can honestly google search, if I cared, but I don’t. Another explained it to me with the bar reaching 1k or something. Cool.
I’m talking about JOY. Again, you must not understand that. You cannot compare the joy YOU felt to how others felt when they accomplished something similar. There is no secret number of joy we get to have maximum amount. It’s relative. So you can’t compare. I get joy in my version of PvP by dismounting nasty gathering bots in WM. I got a few bounties, and earned “Horde Slayer” a few times over. That’s not real PvP, but I got a lot of joy out of disrupting the bot economy.
I make no claim at being good at PvP. But I can answer the question, because while I don’t understand fully the method to play, a simple system of “how to earn things” would just take a moment to read.
Don’t need to do it, those who care about this stuff can fill in the blanks. But you have no way to tell me how much joy myself or others feel in obtaining something that another has. You can only talk about the joy YOU feel.
Again, you’re an mvp, but you’re clearly not understanding the issue of how people feel when they get something. Did I feel much joy when I got invincible? Not really. It was more of an OMG feeling when I got it, but that was it. Now, if I got it back in WotLK and we killed LK then, that would be different, because it was super rare then and it was the peak of the expansion.
If you have a tool to measure the amount of joy, show it to me. Otherwise, you have nothing to say there, and all you can do is jump on “you don’t know how this works”, because you have no argument.
You can obtain this ranking by reaching a rating of 1400 through competing in 2v2, 3v3, or 10v10 arenas and battlegrounds . (ii) Once you’ve reached Combatant ranking you must win further matches in the same season, until your progress bar reaches 100% (2400 points). You’ll then receive the mount.
Oh look, I figured it out. Wow. Took me like 2 seconds to search it. Wasn’t hard. Boom roasted. Your argument is now over. And honestly, I sort of knew this because one of my friends started to PvP and was explaining 1400 and how he’s going to 1800. My honor level is at 11, and under rated, I do see my Season Reward bar.
